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looks like the very first freeze got my brown select satsuma
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GT
Citruholic
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Posts: 395
Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)

Posted: Sat 27 Nov, 2010 4:23 pm

Hello, everyone!
We had a very minor freeze last night: 31-32 F and I foolishly assumed that it should not be a problem to any of my citrus... Sure enough, the first think I have seen in the morning was my brown select that I planted last spring having all her leaves very dark green and sort-of mushy... Everything else including mayers on its own roots and a ruby red that I grafted on supposedly grapefruit roots seem to be fine! Guess, I need to wait for a few days to be sure though... Sad
Besides being very sorry that I did not follow MrTexas advise on frost protection, I am so much puzzled! Are not satsumas supposed to be the most hardy among all citrus?
Also, it seems like the spell was very local: leaves on the nearby grape turned dark too while another grape vine of the same type just 5 feet further seems to be ok... I previously had owary that died on the same very spot last year and it was the only plant that died completely... Is that spot cursed? Confused
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Darkman
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Joined: 20 Jul 2010
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Location: Pensacola Florida South of I-10 Zone 8b/9a

Posted: Sat 27 Nov, 2010 8:49 pm

Don't give up yet. It may not be dead. Make sure you protect it from now on. It may try to send out some new leaves which will be very tender and will require additional protection. Water it thoroughly if you haven't and then protect it. If it is small enough you may want to build a small greenhouse around it. That shouldn't be too hard. Good luck.

_________________
Charles in Pensacola

Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong!

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GT
Citruholic
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Posts: 395
Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)

Posted: Sat 27 Nov, 2010 9:09 pm

Charles,

thank you very much! I start wondering whether I should switch to apples... Yeah, the tree is protected now... I covered the trunk up to the first branch - hope this will be adequate....

Also in the first post, I was wrong twice:
1) temperature went down to 29!
2) other citrus trees show some leaf damage as well including an orange that is sitting next to the building wall. Guess, I overestimated protection from it. The grapefruit got few leaves frozen too.

Still, satsuma got most of the damage, which puzzles me a lot.
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John Bonzo
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Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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Location: Houston, TX

Posted: Sat 27 Nov, 2010 11:48 pm

Was the Satsuma otherwise healthy and well-watered? What is different about that spot (what side of the house is it on, do they sprinklers miss there, lack of overhanging trees, anything)?

The reason that it was such a bad night for your citrus wasn't that it was 29 for the low, but the fact that the freeze was so sudden! Our low on Wednesday was 68 and one day later we had a light freeze...that's a really sudden fluctuation! Our freeze in Houston area wasn't as severe (31 low and only for a couple hours), but I was a bit concerned as some of my citrus are in the middle of a flush. It turns out that my bananas didn't even suffer.
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
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Location: Colorado

Posted: Sun 28 Nov, 2010 12:34 am

I doubt that the tree is dead. A citrus tree acquires a winter hardiness a little at a time form preceding cool temperatures. As John wrote, if the preceding weather was warm, even for a few days in a row, the tree had not built up hardness. However, the tree being a Satsuma I doubt that it is dead. I would recommend you give it at least until next spring. - Millet (778-)
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GT
Citruholic
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Posts: 395
Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)

Posted: Sun 28 Nov, 2010 2:39 am

John,

thank you very much for your reply! I do think too that the plant should recover in the spring. I also agree that the problem was, most likely, that sudden temperature drop.

Regarding the location, it is about 20-30 feet north from the house and about 4-5 feet from the fence. On the other side of the fence, we have a (mostly dry) drainage pond. The plant was brought in March and was receiving full sun and enough of water. It looked healthy and happy but did not grow till September when (after me discovering that soil PH was a bit high and mixing in sulfur) it finally got few fresh leaves. The plant seemed to stop growing about a month ago. The soil was wet from the rain we had staring the Thanksgiving night and ending about noon yesterday. It is great that your plants are fine!

Millet,

thank you very much! I certainly hope that the tree is still alive and will come back in spring. We will see!
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TRI
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Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Posts: 399
Location: Homestead, FL Zone 10

Posted: Sun 28 Nov, 2010 4:11 am

Was the plant wet during the freeze? My plants were wet last night from the rain but the temperature never dropped below freezing. Low temperature was 33F to 35F depending on location.

Is your Brown Select grafted to trifoliate rootstock?
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Sylvain
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 790
Location: Bergerac, France.

Posted: Sun 28 Nov, 2010 8:28 am

Quote:
Is your Brown Select grafted to trifoliate rootstock?
Good question!
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GT
Citruholic
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Posts: 395
Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)

Posted: Sun 28 Nov, 2010 4:03 pm

TRI,

yes, I think the plant was wet.

Regarding the rootstock, the plant came from Brazos Citrus Nursery and they claim that "...citrus trees are budded onto the most cold hardy rootstock available." So, I assume it should be trifoliate.

Well, I just hope that the plant will drop its leaves (no signs of that yet) and will gloriously come back in spring!
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mrtexas
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Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 1030
Location: 9a Missouri City,TX

Posted: Sun 28 Nov, 2010 11:44 pm

Shacklford over at Brazos nursery near Lake Jackson uses a variety of rootstocks. It may or may not be trifoliate. He is not one of my preferred suppliers if I was planting the tree! None of my satsumas had any damage at all.
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GT
Citruholic
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Posts: 395
Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)

Posted: Sun 28 Nov, 2010 11:59 pm

MrTexas,

thank you very much for the information! Unfortunately, at the time I bought the plant a year ago, I did not have any bad references to BCN... I would certainly act different now! Smile

I am glad that your trees did not get any damage! My plants are 1-2 years old and the lot is generally open for north winds. Perhaps, these factors, and that I am about 3-4 miles to the north from you Very Happy made this difference.

Thank you again! The plant (bud union and trunk upto the first branch) are protected from now on... Hopefully, no more damage...
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Sylvain
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 790
Location: Bergerac, France.

Posted: Mon 29 Nov, 2010 7:36 am

If you post a picture of your rootstock we could tell what it is.
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GT
Citruholic
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Posts: 395
Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)

Posted: Mon 29 Nov, 2010 11:04 pm

Sylvain,

thank you very much!!

Wow! I did not know that it is possible to determine the rootstock based on its look! They look quite similar to me. Sad I will try to get a picture tomorrow (although not sure whether will have time before dark). The bud union is covered but I will be happy to take the cover off...

What bothers me, is that the leaves still do not drop! They curl and turn brown right on the plant... Do I understand correctly that this is a bad sign? Is there anything I could do for the plant now (besides trying to protect it from now on)?

Thank you!!!
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John Bonzo
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Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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Location: Houston, TX

Posted: Tue 30 Nov, 2010 12:05 am

GT wrote:
John,

thank you very much for your reply! I do think too that the plant should recover in the spring. I also agree that the problem was, most likely, that sudden temperature drop.

Regarding the location, it is about 20-30 feet north from the house and about 4-5 feet from the fence. On the other side of the fence, we have a (mostly dry) drainage pond. The plant was brought in March and was receiving full sun and enough of water. It looked healthy and happy but did not grow till September when (after me discovering that soil PH was a bit high and mixing in sulfur) it finally got few fresh leaves. The plant seemed to stop growing about a month ago. The soil was wet from the rain we had staring the Thanksgiving night and ending about noon yesterday.



You mentioned wind and I think that that could very well be a large factor (I at least think it's an often overlooked factor in cold protection). Maybe you have a natural wind funnel right to that spot in your yard.

Regarding the leaves not dropping: when my grapefruit defoliated last January, my leaves hung on for a few days as well. I would not worry about it yet! As long as the limbs are not mushy or black, I think the tree will bounce back. Does there appear to be any dieback on the tips of the branches? Also, I've read that it is a good idea to pick up and dispose of the leaves that fall in order to reduce the chances of disease.
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6657
Location: Colorado

Posted: Tue 30 Nov, 2010 12:38 am

Besides citrus, I also grow an acre of grapes (wine & table). I don't know if wind has anything to do with winter temperature citrus damage. I do know that wind has nothing to do with damage to grape vines due to winter temperatures. For grapes it is the temperature alone, and wind is not a co- factor. - Millet (776-)
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