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looks like the very first freeze got my brown select satsuma
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Sylvain
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 790
Location: Bergerac, France.

Posted: Tue 07 Dec, 2010 7:48 pm

The french guru Smile said it is Carrizo because of the typical greenish color. that differentiate it from Poncirus and Citrumelo.
He also said it is much more difficult to differentiate other Citranges.

So, I was wrong it is not Poncirus.
-Poncirus is light grey with green lines
-Carrizo is the same but the grey has a light greenish tint. (if I understood well)

Every day we can learn something.
Very Happy
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GT
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Posts: 395
Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)

Posted: Wed 08 Dec, 2010 12:52 am

Sylvain,

thank you very much for the suggestion!
Ok, I should admit that I'm confused... I could only google-out that Carrizo is semi vigorous... Is it hardy enough for zone 9a?
I think my plan will be to re-graft the plants I have to FD in couple years and migrate to the new rootstock in about 3 years. Smile

Meanwhile, this is my concept of frost protection... This is how that Brown's select looks now:

The white stuff is a porous plastic (about 3 mm thick) normally used for packing. It seems to be holding warmth and moisture well.

The bud unions are covered by pipe thermal isolators (I had them in the garage with no use and decided to use instead of pots filled with soil as experts recommend):


Thank you very much!!
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Millet
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6657
Location: Colorado

Posted: Wed 08 Dec, 2010 1:31 am

Carrizo Citrange is rated good for freezes and drought, but poor for clay or high pH soils, however, Carrizo generally produces a large tree with a high fruit yield and larger fruit. - Millet (768-)
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GT
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Posts: 395
Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)

Posted: Wed 08 Dec, 2010 1:40 am

Millet,

thank you very much! could you, please, recommend a good article/book on rootstock properties? I'm sure this would be of interest to many forumers.
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Darkman
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 968
Location: Pensacola Florida South of I-10 Zone 8b/9a

Posted: Wed 08 Dec, 2010 2:33 am

Millet wrote:
Carrizo Citrange is rated good for freezes and drought, but poor for clay or high pH soils, however, Carrizo generally produces a large tree with a high fruit yield and larger fruit. - Millet (768-)


Kuharske shares those traits with Carrizo Right?

What are the cons to Carrizo?

Can you put a temperature that Kuharske is good down to?

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Charles in Pensacola

Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong!

Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable!
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Millet
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6657
Location: Colorado

Posted: Wed 08 Dec, 2010 3:59 am

Carrizo is actually a pretty good rootstock, with only a few cons. Carrizzo is rated poor for High pH soils, areas with higher salinity, clay soils, and it is susceptible to exocortis viroid, and just intermediate to blight. However, it is tolerant to nematodes and tristeza virus. - Millet (768-)
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gvanzyle



Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 4
Location: South Carolina

Posted: Wed 08 Dec, 2010 5:14 pm

I had a satsuma killed back to the graft several years agol. It is now producing incredible crops.
It took some time in the spring before new growth began to show, so don't give up!
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GT
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Posts: 395
Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)

Posted: Wed 08 Dec, 2010 11:57 pm

gvanzyle wrote:
I had a satsuma killed back to the graft several years agol. It is now producing incredible crops.
It took some time in the spring before new growth began to show, so don't give up!


gvanzyle,

do I understand correctly, that a part of the scion survived? Wink

I think my plant should be ok. The damage (as for today) does not seem severe and the plant is protected. Very Happy I was never planning to give up on it. Smile

Millet,

thank you very much! Our soils are clay... However, while planting, I dug out couple cubic feet of the original soil and filled with purchased soil (mixed with pine needles and pine bark chips) making a raised bed (about 6" higher than the ground). To my surprise, the new soil happened to have ph around 6.5-7 and the plant was not happy until I added sulfur. So, I discovered that it does not do well on high-ph soils by accident. Very Happy
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Darkman
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 968
Location: Pensacola Florida South of I-10 Zone 8b/9a

Posted: Thu 09 Dec, 2010 12:34 am

GT wrote:
thank you very much! Our soils are clay... However, while planting, I dug out couple cubic feet of the original soil and filled with purchased soil (mixed with pine needles and pine bark chips) making a raised bed (about 6" higher than the ground). To my surprise, the new soil happened to have ph around 6.5-7 and the plant was not happy until I added sulfur. So, I discovered that it does not do well on high-ph soils by accident. Very Happy


Not sure how much clay is in your soil, but Citrus prefer well draining soil which I believe you know and tried to create. there is a pitfall to that though. If your clay soil holds water to well then you created a bowl that you planted your tree in. With excessive rain the "bowl" will hold water which is definately bad.

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Charles in Pensacola

Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong!

Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable!
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GT
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Posts: 395
Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)

Posted: Thu 09 Dec, 2010 12:52 am

Darkman,

yeah, I know about that... This is why I was trying to dig the hole shallow but wide and make a hill on top of it. Also, our lot is inclined and, in the worst case scenario, I may make a drainage right from the planting hole as I did for blueberries. Very Happy
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Darkman
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 968
Location: Pensacola Florida South of I-10 Zone 8b/9a

Posted: Thu 09 Dec, 2010 1:07 am

GT wrote:
Darkman,

yeah, I know about that... This is why I was trying to dig the hole shallow but wide and make a hill on top of it. Also, our lot is inclined and, in the worst case scenario, I may make a drainage right from the planting hole as I did for blueberries. Very Happy


Awesome! Good luck with that. I am just learning all this and didn't wan't to insult you. Some people get offended very easily.

_________________
Charles in Pensacola

Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong!

Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable!
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GT
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Posts: 395
Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)

Posted: Thu 09 Dec, 2010 1:20 am

Darkman wrote:
Awesome! Good luck with that. I am just learning all this and didn't wan't to insult you. Some people get offended very easily.


Darkman,

having engineering background and being an ignorant novice... I am definitely NOT insulted! Laughing Very Happy
Actually, I am learning too and really appreciate your suggestions as well as the suggestions from any one on this great forum!
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buddinman
Citrus Guru
Citrus Guru


Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 343
Location: Lumberton Texas zone 8

Posted: Thu 09 Dec, 2010 12:08 pm

In the winter of 2009-2010 trees in our area that were on Carrizo and sour orange were killed, including the root stock.
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GT
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Posts: 395
Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)

Posted: Thu 09 Dec, 2010 9:34 pm

buddinman wrote:
In the winter of 2009-2010 trees in our area that were on Carrizo and sour orange were killed, including the root stock.


Bonnie, I truly hope this winter will be milder than the last one Crying or Very sad I lost my small satsuma... Rootstock that looked like PT has survived. Bill Griffin (a local blueberry-citrus farmer) lost a number of mature satsumas. Their trifoliate roots were fine. I am sure you are absolutely right that trifoliate and flying dragon are the only suitable rootstock for us...

Huh, I am still planning to plant Navel that I grafted on the sour orange roots... since did not have anything else to graft on at that point. Guess, I will be reeeealy protecting it next winter!

Thank you again!!!
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mrtexas
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 1030
Location: 9a Missouri City,TX

Posted: Thu 09 Dec, 2010 10:23 pm

You would be better off to bank with dirt. That insulation on the trunk will do little to nothing. Your cover will work provided it is enclosed on the top to trap heat and reduce radiative losses to the clear sky. Put a light bulb under the cover as well. I really don't think you need any protection beyond banking with dirt for a satsuma in Beaumont.

My mature satsumas didn't drop a leaf last winter here in south Beaumont. Many times last winger a hard freeze was had by the weather station and I didn't get one.

It is a few degrees warmer here than where Bonnie lives approximately 20 miles north.

My cara cara navel on sour orange and panzarella orange on swingle didn't freeze. I banked the trunk with dirt. They did shed some leaves.
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