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hoosierquilt
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Joined: 25 Oct 2010
Posts: 971
Location: Vista, California USA

Posted: Sun 04 Nov, 2012 6:20 pm

Nope. All our major citrus states are totally locked down, Sanguinello. California, Arizona, Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida and South Carolina all have restrictions. California, Arizona, Texas and Florida are really restricted - no citrus growers in those states can ship outside the state (unless they're shipping fruit for consumption, and that fruit must be treated and inspected), nor can they receive any citrus from any other state in the United States (including non-citrus states). Again, we can get fruit in for consumption, but it must be treated and inspected. So, for me here in California, and let me tell you, California is on "High Paranoia Status" due to being the second largest commercial citrus state in the nation, behind Florida (and now possibly exceeding Florida, due to Florida being ravaged by HLB), you can't get anything in or out except seeds. And, I fully expect that option to disappear as soon as they REALLY find HLB here, and not from just an infected graft. But being truly spread by the ACP. Being a nurse and having an extensive science background, I will tell you that we probably already have HLB here, and that it just hasn't been discovered, yet, due to having the ACP here for so long, now. It is almost statistically impossible not to have this here somewhere, lurking in someone's backyard. My fear, as well as the fear of the folks at UCR.

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Patty S.
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Sanguinello
Gest





Posted: Sun 04 Nov, 2012 6:33 pm

so extreme ...

an infection will never be stopped by isolation trials.
the world is one today.
the only chance is to find a cure or imunity.
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hoosierquilt
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Joined: 25 Oct 2010
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Location: Vista, California USA

Posted: Sun 04 Nov, 2012 7:01 pm

Well, actually, it just might. What this is doing, Sanguilnello, is buying us some extremely precious time to get the ongoing research to completion, and out to at least the the commercial growers. Our commercial citrus industry here in the state of California is as large, dollar-wise, as some countries GNP's (over 2 billion US dollars annually). It is our number one cash crop in the state. California produces approximately 80 percent of the United State's fresh citrus fruit and is the United State's main source of fresh-market oranges, according to the Citrus Research Board. California also supplies 87 percent of the nation's lemons. We have seen what has happened in the state of Florida. In 5 years, 100% of all citrus trees in the state of Florida will be infected with HLB, per projections made by HLB researchers. California cannot be the next state to fall. So, extreme measures will be taken to protect this industry that employs millions of people and provides billions of dollars of revenue, and that would include ripping out all my trees (or anyone's trees, if they are deemed to be a threat). It is serious, serious stuff here. Southern Caliifornia IS CITRUS. I was born in a house built in a Valencia orange orchard. I have been completely surrounded by citrus all my life. I lived around the corner from UCR and their incredible Citrus Collection, and raised my kids in the middle of some of the most beautiful lemon groves in Riverside county. Every single home in my neighborhood have at least 1 citrus tree in their yard (I have over 50). I back a 147 acre Valencia orange grove that has been abandoned sadly, due to the cost of our water here (and why all commercial citrus for the most part is now taking part in more northernly areas of the state, where water is cheaper and more abundant).

Not to overwhelm you with my answer, but by instituting these restrictions we may JUST save our citrus in California. We are very, very, very close to several effective control measures. Within maybe a year possibly less. Millions of research dollars are being infused by private industry to save the industry. I am staying hopeful.

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Sanguinello
Gest





Posted: Sun 04 Nov, 2012 7:17 pm

You know I love citrus, but I think panic won´t help.

Do not forget that HLB broke out in China more than 60 years ago and there is still a citrus industry in China.
Same you will see in your country.

A desease never extinct a species.
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6657
Location: Colorado

Posted: Sun 04 Nov, 2012 7:45 pm

If a cure, or a solution to the HLB problem is ever found, it will most certainly be found by an American research foundation. - Millet 70
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Sanguinello
Gest





Posted: Sun 04 Nov, 2012 7:49 pm

where ever ...

I would even apriciate it, if they find it in china ...
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hoosierquilt
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Joined: 25 Oct 2010
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Location: Vista, California USA

Posted: Sun 04 Nov, 2012 11:10 pm

Millet is correct. The United States is spearheading the research, and fortunately, there is international cooperation with research projects being conducted all around the world where citrus is a prominent commercial industry. And, lots of sharing between research projects, rather unheard amongst researchers. However, make no mistake about it, the large research money infusion is coming from the United States citrus industry, with Brazil a distant second. No one is "panicking", Sanguinello, but California isn't sitting around taking a "wait and see" approach, as Florida did. I can tell you most certainly that the California Citrus industry learned some very valuable lessons about how Florida dealt with HLB, and the price that their slow to the trigger approach cost that state. To date, HLB has cost Florida approximately $3.63 billion in lost revenues and over 6,000 jobs since 2006. The first outbreak of greening in Florida was confirmed in 2005. Two years later, it had spread to every citrus-growing area in the state of Florida. It’s also endemic now in large parts of Asia and Africa, and has invaded Brazil, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Belize, and parts of Mexico.

And, here is the peculiar thing about the organism that was pointed out to us at our California Rare Fruit Grower's Meeting earlier this year by Dr. Allan Dodd, Professor Emeritus, UC Riverside who gave us a very fascinating presentation on the ACP and HLB: The bacterium responsible for HLB, Candidatus Liberibacter asiaticus, actually kills its host. In the wild, an organism like this would simply run out of host material, thus committing its own "suicide" and eventual extinction. However, since we humans need citrus, we are causing this perpetuation of the organism. So, we are actually part of the problem. Another significant roadblock to research is the nature of the organism again, being "Candidatus" - indicating when a species or genus is well characterised but unculturable. They can't grow it in a Petri dish to study and test it. all testing and research has to be done in situ, making it much more difficult, more slow and much more expensive.

I am still considering a fast-track PhD at UC Riverside to study molecular pathobiology specifically studing C. Liberibacter sp. I just am having a hard time convincing myself to make the hour and a half one way drive to the campus every day Smile And the fact that I'm old. Not really PhD age any more. But it fascinates me, and particularly one current research study that I would kill to be a part of, where the research team is trying to use the Tristeza virus, de-pathogenize the organism, and use it as a "silver bullet" to bring in an organism that preys on C. Liberibacter and kills it, but spares the (citrus) host. It is a super sophisticated way to innoculate or vaccinate the citrus tree, to actually kill the infection, and continue protecting the tree for the life of the tree. It is so futuristic and yet so simple in its concept. They are doing equally amazing things on the vector side of research (with ACP) as well. I could go on, but would bore everyone with the lurid scientific details.

So. We do need to panic. We DO need to take this very seriously. We need to be very careful what we do as hobbyists, not to inadvertently spread this disease or other serious citrus diseases. Both for selfish reasons, as we all love our citrus trees, but in consideration of the many thousands of people whose jobs depend upon commercial citrus. I have learned so much from UC Riverside, Dr. Tracy Kahn, Dr. Allan Dodd, and many other citrus experts in my area. I would like to be part of the cure and not part of the problem, so I continue to try to rectify people's understanding and attitudes towards safe citrus practices, and get the point across that this is serious stuff that needs swift and definitive action.

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elsedgwick
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Joined: 26 May 2012
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Location: Thomasville, GA (8b)/Tallahassee, Fl (9a microclimate)

Posted: Wed 07 Nov, 2012 3:29 am

Does anyone know how HLB has been managed in Asia? I was in Thailand over the summer, where HLB has been known for four decades, and found numerous dooryard and even a few commercial citrus orchards that seemed to be in good health, despite, in some cases, being apparently neglected.
The virulence of diseases often wanes as they "mature", due perhaps to the evolutionary pressure Hoosierquilt describes (as well as, perhaps, to the increased resilience of the host, under its own obvious evolutionary pressures; the relative lifespans of hosts and diseases, though, often means it is the diseases that first display alteration), and it seems, from a snapshot-view, as though this may have happened to some degree in Asia. All this is not, of course, to suggest that we should take a laissez-faire approach to greening here (for one thing, as HQ points out, our cultural practices may block this effect) , but simply asked out of curiosity.
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Radoslav
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Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 454
Location: Slovak Republic

Posted: Wed 07 Nov, 2012 7:08 am

Back to the topic : we discussed "Varia" variety here: link
About the origin - I asked Mr. Broza - ("Varia" spreaded to czech, slovak and russian collections from his collection). He said, that he got this variety from one old citruholic from Czech Republic many years ago and he asked this man about the origin, answer was, that this man remember only one thing, that he got it from Italy.
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Sanguinello
Gest





Posted: Wed 07 Nov, 2012 7:11 am

HLB was known and fought in China since 60 years.

Today it is still a lot of research there, but besides of that, completely ignored by the public.

Same as Tristezza in Europe, nobody cares about it ...

Similary to AIDS it takes 20 - 30 years inter infection to see symptomes and then it takes 5-6 years to kill the tree.

That means if you have an outbreak, then the whole country is more or less infected already and consequentely much too late to do any isolation.

On the other hand are 20 - 30 years such a long period, that the trees would have been replaced anyways to new sorts ...
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Laaz
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Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 5671
Location: Dorchester County, South Carolina

Posted: Wed 07 Nov, 2012 4:40 pm

Well I'm still confused. Maybe it was brought to Italy from Florida? Mine has never had the wide leaves, but the willow leaves are identical.

http://idtools.org/id/citrus/citrusid/factsheet.php?name=Aber%27s



http://www.citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus/salicifolia.html

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Sanguinello
Gest





Posted: Wed 07 Nov, 2012 4:45 pm

It is from Italy , but at that time the exchange of plants was very easy ...
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Millet
Citruholic
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6657
Location: Colorado

Posted: Wed 07 Nov, 2012 6:04 pm

Sanguinello do you have any conformation backing up your statement that Aber's originated in Italy,? - Millet
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Sanguinello
Gest





Posted: Wed 07 Nov, 2012 6:29 pm

You read that old Citrus book, yes ?

I am sure you will find it there, that willow leaf orange is noted in all old citrus books ...
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Sanguinello
Gest





Posted: Wed 07 Nov, 2012 6:38 pm

Besides ...

ABERS is thought to be from Florida, not Varia ... and I also don´t think so :

http://users.kymp.net/citruspages/souroranges.html#corniculata
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