Citrus Growers Forum

JoeReal · Posted: Wed 09 Apr, 2008 1:58 am

In due time, the gap will be filled with callousing materials joining both cambiums.

By joereal at 2008-04-08

Sylvain · Posted: Wed 09 Apr, 2008 3:43 am

I already thought that and now I don't cut the "Joe part" perpendicular to the cutting surface, but nearly tangential to the scion bark exposing a large surface of scion's cambium to the bark's cambium.
Bad English and no drawing, here it is morning and I hurry to go to work.

JoeReal · Posted: Wed 09 Apr, 2008 10:44 am

Sylvain wrote:

I already thought that and now I don't cut the "Joe part" perpendicular to the cutting surface, but nearly tangential to the scion bark exposing a large surface of scion's cambium to the bark's cambium.
Bad English and no drawing, here it is morning and I hurry to go to work.

You are correct! I would recommend a slant of 45 deg cut during the edge trimming would be the best for tangential contact of host and scion cambiums in most cases. But knowing how plants would fill the "open wound" interstitial gap with callousing materials, a perpendicular cut is as good but simpler to explain and easier to do. The problem with slanting cut is that you could easily overcut and remove more bark than necessary on the scion that may not be covered with the bark flap during insertion. The uncovered area on the scion will be exposed and become a little bit harder to callouse over since they are not under bark flap of the host. But if you can cut precisely, you could use that cut. I am lousy with the grafting knife myself, so I use the method which I can easily control and perpendicular cut it is. I sometimes do slanting cut when the scion and host are big enough. For toothpick size materials, it really doesn't matter if you trim or not.

dauben · Posted: Wed 09 Apr, 2008 5:16 pm

JoeReal wrote:

Place the scionwood in the water, place also the knife including the bread knife into the same glass so that we will use only one hand when carrying these items. Have also prepared the cultivar label, kimizukawase pear in our example. Ever heard of that one before? but whatever, this one goes into my collection.

(Who drank my wine, well, it is a little bit chilly outside, so the wine is gone).

In this step here, instead of soaking in water, can you soak it in the diluted mixture of rooting hormone like someone mentioned before?

How long would the soaking need to be for in order to obtain the benefits of the rooting hormone?

Also any ideas on the concentration of the hormone?

Phillip

JoeReal · Posted: Wed 09 Apr, 2008 5:44 pm

I first mentioned it in some other sites before this one. Yes, adding rooting hormone encourages cell differentiation resulting to slightly faster and better conjoining of cambium host and scion. But honestly, due to high success rates in bark grafting, it is not statistically an improvement. How could it be better improved when you are hovering near 100% success rate? But for other friends and fellow grafters, they reported that such use of rooting hormones, they improved their successes significantly.

The best one that I have used is a rooting gel, but forgot the comany name, I hope I can dig that one later for the exact info. the gel can be warmed up and liquified and I use 2 drops of that per 8 oz of water. Minute traces of hormones would be the general guideline. An overdose could result to growth of hairlike structures in the calloused area, especially if you wrap it and moisture is trapped. That I have observed. The hairlike structures disappeared after the wrappings fell off.

for my styles, there is no need to use these anymore. Added step, cost, and complication for not much gain. But it is fun to try for those who would like to improve their success rates. It doesn't work with all wood types though.

Perhaps the biggest factor in grafting successes would really be the quality of the scionwood followed by timing and the grafting techniques.

dauben · Posted: Thu 10 Apr, 2008 2:05 am

JoeReal wrote:

Sylvain wrote:

I already thought that and now I don't cut the "Joe part" perpendicular to the cutting surface, but nearly tangential to the scion bark exposing a large surface of scion's cambium to the bark's cambium.
Bad English and no drawing, here it is morning and I hurry to go to work.

You are correct! I would recommend a slant of 45 deg cut during the edge trimming would be the best for tangential contact of host and scion cambiums in most cases. But knowing how plants would fill the "open wound" interstitial gap with callousing materials, a perpendicular cut is as good but simpler to explain and easier to do. The problem with slanting cut is that you could easily overcut and remove more bark than necessary on the scion that may not be covered with the bark flap during insertion. The uncovered area on the scion will be exposed and become a little bit harder to callouse over since they are not under bark flap of the host. But if you can cut precisely, you could use that cut. I am lousy with the grafting knife myself, so I use the method which I can easily control and perpendicular cut it is. I sometimes do slanting cut when the scion and host are big enough. For toothpick size materials, it really doesn't matter if you trim or not.

In the picture below, is Sylvain's cut shown correctly or do you cut it more like the last one so that it is in direct contact with the cambium of the host?

Phillip

Sylvain · Posted: Thu 10 Apr, 2008 3:27 am

It is more like the first case. But as we only cut the last third, the scion has not exactly this shape, it is more flat. I will send a drawing in few hours.
Or a picture.

dauben · Posted: Thu 10 Apr, 2008 11:07 am

JoeReal wrote:

But honestly, due to high success rates in bark grafting, it is not statistically an improvement. How could it be better improved when you are hovering near 100% success rate? But for other friends and fellow grafters, they reported that such use of rooting hormones, they improved their successes significantly.

Yes, but I have a bottle of Indole-3-butyric Acid that I'm not using anymore so I'd like to use it up on something. I figure my grafts can get an extra boost if Indole-3-butyric Acid is okay to use.

Phillip

boneyard3 · Posted: Sat 29 Aug, 2009 2:38 pm

I enjoyed this tutorial a great deal.I had to read it several times since i am new at this kind of grafting. I graft mainly asian persimmon to native for now, because there so many wild persimmon growing here. So far i have not much luck, so i hope your lessons will help me. Thank You a bunch!! Laughing

_________________
My new project to growing fruits:citrus and some tropical fruits.
I like a good veriety of citrus and just a couple of mango's.Got everything else already.

David. · Posted: Tue 10 Nov, 2009 3:17 pm

HeY Joe in your opinion is sylains cut a bit better than your cut
in performing the union faster than having to have material fill the void
in between .theoretically the sylvain cut requires less material so should it heal faster?

_________________
South Texas gardener

oxtailpaksiw · Joined: 26 Dec 2010 Posts: 17 Location: CA

Since the scion was soaked in water before prior to this step, is it not necessary to dry it before inserting?

[quote="JoeReal"]Start inserting the previously prepared scionwood, insert it just under the flap and press it against the bark while pushing downward. Sometimes you will have to use your thumb at the pointed tapered end of the scionwood and press it against the bark while sliding down, so that it will not slide outside of the bark flap.

[img]http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6934/DSC07262.jpg[/img][/quote]