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Citrus Growers Forum
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Citrus Growers v2.0
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Patty_in_wisc Citrus Angel
Joined: 15 Nov 2005 Posts: 1842 Location: zone 5 Milwaukee, Wi
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Posted: Sun 13 Aug, 2006 9:59 am |
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Franco, you already asked what zone your're in & someone answered. If I remember, you're in zone 6-7? Look up your question.
If you graft upsidedown,it will always grow upward. You can't make a tree grow upside down. _________________ Patty
I drink wine to make other people more interesting
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Laaz Site Owner
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 5657 Location: Dorchester County, South Carolina
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Posted: Sun 13 Aug, 2006 5:35 pm |
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Actually the bud should fail if inserted upside down. |
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citrusboy Citruholic
Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 170 Location: Southern California Coastal
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Posted: Mon 14 Aug, 2006 8:43 am |
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Hmmm. Not sure about and upside down graft. I did graft something onto my Eureka lemon sort of upside down. Hasn't sprouted yet, but then again, it has failed yet either... _________________ citrusboy aka marc
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JoeReal Site Admin
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 4726 Location: Davis, California
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Posted: Mon 14 Aug, 2006 8:48 am |
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most upside down bud will fail. I've never seen one that sprouted.
I've had one upside down graft that took, was alive for more than 4 months, remained green, but it never sprouted. It was ultimately swallowed by the stock bark. |
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Franco
Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 18 Location: either 7 or 8...
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Posted: Sat 19 Aug, 2006 8:29 am |
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I remember my bio teacher talking about something how he used to put branches on a tree upside down somehow but i can't remmeber how. I go back to school on september 6th i think and ill ask him then and get back to you.
Edit: and the branches grew upside down |
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Patty_in_wisc Citrus Angel
Joined: 15 Nov 2005 Posts: 1842 Location: zone 5 Milwaukee, Wi
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Posted: Sat 19 Aug, 2006 9:42 am |
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Maybe he grafted onto the bottom of a horizontal branch? That's the most "upside down" thing I can think of LOL. Let us know Franco. _________________ Patty
I drink wine to make other people more interesting
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Skeeter Moderator
Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 2218 Location: Pensacola, FL zone 9
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Posted: Thu 09 Nov, 2006 7:44 pm |
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Hey Joe, have you ever tried four flap bannana grafts on persimmon?
Do you think it would help to cut and store some "winter wood" for grafting in the spring after bud break? It seems to have really helped me with pecans.
Final question-- where can I get some grafting wood?
Skeet |
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JoeReal Site Admin
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 4726 Location: Davis, California
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Posted: Thu 09 Nov, 2006 8:03 pm |
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Skeet, I might try it (4-flaps), but the major drawback with the method is finding the exact matching diameters unlike the bark grafting method. Sometimes when you have just one scionwood to graft it unto a particular spot, the chances of having matching size is very small and very frustrating. So I use grafting techniques that are more forgiving with mismatched sizes.
You can get the newly dormant budwoods, wrap them in moist newspapers, put in ziploc bag with couple of punch hole for ventilation, stash away in the veggie bin of the fridge until you are ready to graft in spring.
I get our persimmon scionwood from various friends in the neighborhood, and for the rarer cultivars, we got CRFG scionwood exchange each year. I go to three places, I follow the scionwood from Santa Clara CRFG where they first appear, up to Sacramento CRFG where I can take all I want before they throw them away.
Check with your state regs if it is okay for you to take persimmon scionwood from outside state.
Regards,
Joe |
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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Posted: Tue 28 Nov, 2006 6:24 pm |
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JoeReal wrote: | One of the most important detail of my bark grafting style is shown below. Lightly trim off the edges, starting from the middle of the slice to the tapered end. I'm taking out about 1/16" to 1/8" off the edge to expose the cambium layer sideways. Remember that this is bark grafting and exposing this cambium will have very good contact with the destination bark and cambium interface where the callous healing starts and it will enhance survival of the scionwood. Don't forget this tiny but very important detail when doing bark grafting. This detail was mentioned to me by Lucky Pittman after I complained about the low success rates of my early attempts of persimmon grafting, now it's been 100% success rate.
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Joe:
Do you or can you use this technique when cutting buds for Tbud grafting? It seems like cutting the top of the bark and exposing the cambium like you have here would have the same benefit. THen again if you are getting a nearly 100% success rate with Tbudding, then there might not be any reason to insert an extra step. For beginners like me, it might be worth it if it does have some benefit.
Thanks,
Phillip |
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JoeReal Site Admin
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 4726 Location: Davis, California
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Posted: Tue 28 Nov, 2006 7:53 pm |
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Philip, I have tried that with my T-budding, but the rate stayed the same. What is better is that to dip the newly cut buds in a diluted mixture of rooting hormone. It will have very good cambial healing. |
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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Posted: Wed 29 Nov, 2006 1:28 am |
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JoeReal wrote: | Philip, I have tried that with my T-budding, but the rate stayed the same. What is better is that to dip the newly cut buds in a diluted mixture of rooting hormone. It will have very good cambial healing. |
How much do you dilute it by?
Thanks,
Phillip |
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JoeReal Site Admin
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 4726 Location: Davis, California
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Posted: Wed 29 Nov, 2006 1:53 am |
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I bought one of those gel-based rooting dip, mix 4 drops (medicine dropper) into one half glass (4 oz) triple distilled (sterilized) water and placed the newly cut citrus buds in there while I prepare the T section. After the T-section is prepared on the destination stock, I fish out the citrus bud and insert them. The buds stayed moist while the T is prepared and received about 2 minutes of soaking. I resort to this method when the weather is really warm as in summer time. Otherwise, I simply prepare the T-section first, cut the bud and insert it for the already waiting T. |
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Skeeter Moderator
Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 2218 Location: Pensacola, FL zone 9
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Posted: Fri 06 Apr, 2007 7:28 pm |
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Hi Joe,
I used your bark grafting tutorial today with the persimmon wood you sent. My persimmon tree had finally started leafing out. I used the whip graft method like you suggested on the small limb and it felt very secure.
Hopefully, I will have persimmons in a few years!
Thanks for the scionwood and the tutorial.-- Skeet _________________ Skeet
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Helix Citruholic
Joined: 04 Jan 2008 Posts: 37 Location: Atwater CA
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Posted: Sat 29 Mar, 2008 3:19 am |
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Hi Joe,
I have never seen a grafting demonstration but I studied this tutorial many times. In the last 3 weeks I have made over 60 bark grafts on citrus, apple, pear, peach, nectarine, apricot, plum, and cherry. I used the budwood from the Jan exchange in Sacramento. So far about 20 of the grafts are showing growth and I am hopeful for most of the rest. I followed your example as close as I could- I cut myself twice. I plan to go to the CRFG cirtus scion wood exchange in April and get more varities. Thanks for the outstanding tutorial.
Helix |
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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Posted: Wed 09 Apr, 2008 12:58 am |
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JoeReal wrote: | Stop sliding down the scionwood when the upper end or edge of the splice is at level with the cut of the branch. In the picture below, I will push it a wee bit more downward.
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I have a question about this part here. This could also apply to budding, but when you insert the scion isn't there a gap between the bark flaps and the area where the scion touches the wood? I sketched a picture since my question probably doesn't make sense:
Now here's my questions:
1) Is the cambium on the branch being grafted onto attached to the underside of the bark flaps? This has always been my assumption. If I'm wrong here, my next two questions are in error also.
2) Does the area where I have a "gap?" titled pose a problem? I'm not sure how the cambium on the underside of the bark flaps makes good contact in this region where the sides are trimmed.
3) Would shaving the bark off of the top of the scion (say at 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock positions) make better contact with the cambium than at 9 and 3 o'clock?
4) When you tape the bark/scion, does the "gap" compress and eliminate the annualar space there?
4) If the gap is a bad thing, I've seen two vertical cuts being made to cut out a stip like shown in the upper right hand corner of the picture below. Would this be better than the one vertical cut?
Anyway, this is something I've been curious about for a while, but didn't know how to ask the question without a picture. Today I got off my duff and drew the picture. One thing that I've noticed is all of the grafting tutorials on the web have awful diagrams and sketches. THANK YOU JOE FOR PRESENTING THESE TUTORIALS!!
Phillip |
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