Citrus Growers Forum Index Citrus Growers Forum

This is the read-only version of the Citrus Growers Forum.

Breaking news: the Citrus Growers Forum is reborn from its ashes!

Citrus Growers v2.0

Strange thing
Goto Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next  
Citrus Growers Forum Index du Forum -> Hardy Citrus (USDA zone 8 or lower)
Author Message
ilyaC
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 274
Location: France, 40km South of Paris

Posted: Wed 02 Jan, 2013 6:31 pm

Morton fruits are very often distorted, but this was an extreme, probably due to the early fruit damage by spider mite. Below are last November harvest:




_________________
Best regards,
Ilya
Back to top
Laaz
Site Owner
Site Owner


Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 5642
Location: Dorchester County, South Carolina

Posted: Wed 02 Jan, 2013 6:35 pm

Thanks ilya. Yes that photo is common for Morton, but the fingered is not common. Mite damage is probably correct.

_________________
Wal-Mart a great place to buy cheap plastic crap ! http://walmartwatch.com/ ...

Back to top
ilyaC
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 274
Location: France, 40km South of Paris

Posted: Sun 13 Jan, 2013 9:52 am

Radoslav wrote:
this is strange, because if they said, that this plant is result of one student work - cross of unshiu and poncirus , so I expected, that it will be zygotic seedling from unshiu fruit pollinated by poncirus pollen. Speaking of nucellar seedling sounds like they got seeds, not plant and made a clon - but I think, there is another reason, better wait what Mr. Broza will say.

Radoslav,
Any news from Mr. Broza?
In the article on Russian citruses that dates of year 1951 there is a winter hardiness ranking for "Chimère Satsuma x Trifoliata"

_________________
Best regards,
Ilya
Back to top
Radoslav
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 453
Location: Slovak Republic

Posted: Sun 13 Jan, 2013 5:56 pm

Finaly, I asked Mr. Broza and got following answer. :
B. Voss got this plant in 2000, from the hands of the director of university greenhouse.
About the origin. : Mr. Broza asked the founders of greenhouse collections about the origin of this variety several times in the past, but never got clear answer. So ... who knows. Idea
Back to top
Radoslav
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 453
Location: Slovak Republic

Posted: Mon 14 Jan, 2013 4:16 am

Update,
yesterday, Snek - member of this forum, told me, that there are two different cross between unshiu and poncirus, one from former USSR, which has a bit different leaves, than that usnhiu x poncirus from Prague and also fruit is more like poncirus fruit than satsuma and is more cold hardy, than unshiu x poncirus from Prague.
Back to top
snek
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 58
Location: EU-CZ, Brno, 49°14´N, 16°35´E, 248m, zone 6b/7a

Posted: Mon 14 Jan, 2013 11:34 am

Yes, there are two different hybrids (Unshiu X PT). One usualy named as (Unshiu X PT Prague, ITSZ). The second most often as the (PT X unshiu, USSR).

The first can be seen in the photos here
http://www.agrumi-voss.de/satsxpon3.jpg
http://www.agrumi-voss.de/satsxpon2.jpg
or on my website
http://www.citrusy.estranky.cz/fotoalbum/mrazuodolne-hybridy/hybrid-_unshiu-x-poncirus-trifoliata_/

The second I have not, but I saw him with my own eyes. Leaves are trifoliate, strongly serrated, fruits are not edible. Like a citrange or trifoliata.

What is certain is that the plant imported B. Voss from greenhouses ITSZ from Prague. ITSZ is the abbreviated name of the Institute of Tropical and Subtropical Agriculture. This is a Faculty of Agriculture University.
If it was imported from the former Soviet Union or there was bred, will remain unknown.

_________________
http://www.citrusy.estranky.cz/
Back to top
Radoslav
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 453
Location: Slovak Republic

Posted: Mon 14 Jan, 2013 2:30 pm

Radoslav wrote:
Ilya, if you are interested of that part of history (citruses in former USSR), you can contact Mr. Urban directly. I think, he is 82 years old now. He prefers communication by letters - no by Internet.
His postal address is here:
http://www.citrusy-karel.estranky.cz/clanky/kontakt.html

Mr. Urban
author of rootstock variety "SP Urban"

source: http://www.citrusy-karel.estranky.cz/


Got a sad news today, Mr. Urban passed away at the age of 82. The part of Czechoslovak citrus history is gone forever. R.I.P.
Back to top
Roberto
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Vienna/Austria

Posted: Mon 14 Jan, 2013 7:44 pm

I have some seedlings of this variety. It turned out to be quite hardy. I am sure that "Prague" is SatsumaXFlying Dragon. The second Citsuma seems to be a cross between normal Poncirus and Satsuma. Maybe -like Dragonlime- with "Prague" Poncirus FD was the "mother" and pollen came from C. unshiu. Confused
Back to top
Laaz
Site Owner
Site Owner


Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 5642
Location: Dorchester County, South Carolina

Posted: Mon 14 Jan, 2013 7:52 pm

Sad to hear Rad. R.I.P.

_________________
Wal-Mart a great place to buy cheap plastic crap ! http://walmartwatch.com/ ...

Back to top
snek
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 58
Location: EU-CZ, Brno, 49°14´N, 16°35´E, 248m, zone 6b/7a

Posted: Mon 14 Jan, 2013 8:51 pm

Roberto wrote:
I have some seedlings of this variety. It turned out to be quite hardy. I am sure that "Prague" is SatsumaXFlying Dragon. The second Citsuma seems to be a cross between normal Poncirus and Satsuma. Maybe -like Dragonlime- with "Prague" Poncirus FD was the "mother" and pollen came from C. unshiu. Confused


Yes, I have a similar view

_________________
http://www.citrusy.estranky.cz/
Back to top
Sanguinello
Gest





Posted: Tue 15 Jan, 2013 1:42 am

R.I.P


M condolences to the family.
Back to top
Roberto
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Vienna/Austria

Posted: Fri 27 Sep, 2013 7:44 am

In the last years the grafted scion of my trifoliate Citsuma "Prague"- sport has always flowered but did not keep its fruits. This year I have 4 or 5! They are ripe now and seem to bee "normal" PT-fruits. When I checked my "Prague" tree a few days ago I found a new trifoliate twig on top. It is similar to my "strange thing". Bernhard Voss told me, that he has found such shoots on his plant aswell. But if "Prague" is a chimera -why is the whole Plant that cold hardy? Mine survived last Winter only with sun protection. Minimum temperature -12°C Pictures will follow!
Back to top
ilyaC
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 274
Location: France, 40km South of Paris

Posted: Fri 27 Sep, 2013 10:32 am

Roberto wrote:
In the last years the grafted scion of my trifoliate Citsuma "Prague"- sport has always flowered but did not keep its fruits. This year I have 4 or 5! They are ripe now and seem to bee "normal" PT-fruits. When I checked my "Prague" tree a few days ago I found a new trifoliate twig on top. It is similar to my "strange thing". Bernhard Voss told me, that he has found such shoots on his plant aswell. But if "Prague" is a chimera -why is the whole Plant that cold hardy? Mine survived last Winter only with sun protection. Minimum temperature -12°C Pictures will follow!

It could be that these temperatures killed most satsuma cells in the chimera and it is now predominately poncirus.

_________________
Best regards,
Ilya
Back to top
Sylvain
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 790
Location: Bergerac, France.

Posted: Fri 27 Sep, 2013 8:21 pm

I have fruits on my Pragues. They are not at all like poncirus fruits.
They are far from ripe because we had a very bad spring and all the citrus are 2 months late.
Only the PT are getting ripe.
Back to top
Roberto
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Vienna/Austria

Posted: Mon 30 Sep, 2013 11:10 am

Sylvain, what do you mean when you say not all like poncirus fruit? Are there some like PT-fruits? I tasted mine in the meantime and had the feeling that these fruits are a bit diffferent from regular PT. Less resin -I tried a PT-Flying Dragon-fruit - an d the juice not bitter at all. If you have both rtifoliate and mono/bifoliate branches you shold cut trifoliate back (or completely get rid of them). They are much more vigorous than the others. At least that is what I saw. I wonder what DNA-analysis could bring out -are these twigs just PT or are they something new?
Back to top
Citrus Growers Forum Index du Forum -> Hardy Citrus (USDA zone 8 or lower)
Goto Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Page 6 of 8
Informations
Qui est en ligne ? Our users have posted a total of 66068 messages
We have 3235 registered members on this websites
Most users ever online was 70 on Tue 30 Oct, 2012 10:12 am

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group