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Citrus Growers Forum Index du Forum -> In ground citrus
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pertman
Citruholic
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Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Posts: 51
Location: Desert Oasis Ranch, Tucson, Arizona

Posted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 2:40 am

TRI wrote:
Mark_T wrote:
I'm looking at lows of 22F over the next two days, then 29F on Friday.


It gets that cold in Arizona often? I thought cold temperatures were rare west of the Rockies.

Another great place to grow citrus is Sout West Arizona where mountains block the cold air.

I wish we had east west mountains north of here because this would prevent most freezes or block the coldest air.


Here in Tucson, right now (9:34pm) it is 26 degrees in my citrus area. Projected to be 17 degrees about 0400. Last night's low was 22. The Arctic Express moved in today and tomorrow night is supposed to be 16. According to the local TV stations, these are ALL TIME lows. I've done everything I can to protect the in ground trees, but it is up to mother nature now. Just an FYI, the high today was at 0900 in the morning and by 3 pm the OAT was 34 degrees. And, I am usually a few degrees warmer than surrounding areas.

P.
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Mark_T
Citruholic
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Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 757
Location: Gilbert,AZ

Posted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 5:20 am

pertman wrote:
TRI wrote:
Mark_T wrote:
I'm looking at lows of 22F over the next two days, then 29F on Friday.


It gets that cold in Arizona often? I thought cold temperatures were rare west of the Rockies.

Another great place to grow citrus is Sout West Arizona where mountains block the cold air.

I wish we had east west mountains north of here because this would prevent most freezes or block the coldest air.


Here in Tucson, right now (9:34pm) it is 26 degrees in my citrus area. Projected to be 17 degrees about 0400. Last night's low was 22. The Arctic Express moved in today and tomorrow night is supposed to be 16. According to the local TV stations, these are ALL TIME lows. I've done everything I can to protect the in ground trees, but it is up to mother nature now. Just an FYI, the high today was at 0900 in the morning and by 3 pm the OAT was 34 degrees. And, I am usually a few degrees warmer than surrounding areas.

P.


The estimates keeping dropping in my area now. 20f is the projected low, but that's also without windchill. We are getting pretty heavy winds as well here.
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pertman
Citruholic
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Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Posts: 51
Location: Desert Oasis Ranch, Tucson, Arizona

Posted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 12:40 pm

The below temperature map is certainly depressing. Here in Tucson, more of the same for tonight. Actual low temp here at my weather station is now 14.6, the low as 14.4 with winds 13 gusting 21. I guess I can plan on replacing my citrus. This temp represents an historic, all-time low. Sad

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pertman
Citruholic
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Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Posts: 51
Location: Desert Oasis Ranch, Tucson, Arizona

Posted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 3:34 pm

Believe it or not, the below picture is from downtown Tucson:



I'm sure there will be a run on replacement citrus in a month or so. These temps are the lowest since 1889!!!!! Sad
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TRI
Citruholic
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Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Posts: 399
Location: Homestead, FL Zone 10

Posted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 3:44 pm

Pertman, what kind of citrus do you have? Those temperatures are very cold for Arizona.
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pertman
Citruholic
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Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Posts: 51
Location: Desert Oasis Ranch, Tucson, Arizona

Posted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 4:22 pm

I had (whether they are still alive is another question):

    Varigated Pink Eureka Lemon
    Mexican Lime
    Washington Navel
    Moro Blood Orange
    Rio Red Grapefruit
    Valencia


They were protected with frost cloth, xmas lights and 250 watt halogen worklights.

[/list]

I guess historic (since 1889) lows will defeat my protections. It is supposed to be at least as cold, if not colder tonight. Generally, the low temps here are in the high 20s, but in a La Nina year, anything is possible. One forecast has this cold sinking all the way to Cancun Mexico.

Regards,

Peter
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TRI
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Posts: 399
Location: Homestead, FL Zone 10

Posted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 5:12 pm

New Mexico looks extremely cold! Is cold this severe normal for New Mexico? This is not a normal La Nina winter for sure. I think a low of around 40F was reported in Cuba back in December! I am expecting a massive fish kill here in local waters. The water temperatures around here are in the low to mid 40s and this is danger zone for spotted trout especially. This is about 20 F below average! I think it will be at least a month before the water temperatures are warm enough for swimming.
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Mark_T
Citruholic
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Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 757
Location: Gilbert,AZ

Posted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 6:04 pm

By the way does anyone have a preference for monitoring temps? I've been using weatherunderground and Accuweather.
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pertman
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Posts: 51
Location: Desert Oasis Ranch, Tucson, Arizona

Posted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 7:21 pm

Mark_T wrote:
By the way does anyone have a preference for monitoring temps? I've been using weatherunderground and Accuweather.


Other than my on-site weather station (Davis Vantage Pro2, wireless), you might find the following useful (cut and pasted from another of my posts which was helping somebody up the road in Phoenix):

Here is a useful site, which has been surprisingly accurate in Tucson's microclimates. It has been within a degree or two from my actual temperature measurements. The below is for Phoenix, you can also see other NWS offices at http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/psr/ (note: change psr to the location code of the NWS office you are interested in)

1. Goto http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/forecast/wxtables/?wfo=psr.
2. Under "Select Weather Format" pick "1" (which will give you hourly forecasts for temperature, immensely important in cold nights ).
3. Enter your zip code and click "Go".

You might want to bookmark this page (after clicking Go) and setting your options the way you like them. The page automatically updates. Again, I have found this to be extremely accurate in its forecasting. Of course, considering we are still in a "La Nina" event, anything is possible.
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TRI
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Posts: 399
Location: Homestead, FL Zone 10

Posted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 8:18 pm

There is more cold coming next week especially for the southeast! I hate to bring such bad news but that is the forecast! This freeze will end tomorrow night and then another on the way Tuesday! This is a La Nina year and a strong one and yet the arctic air keeps coming south. It looks like the scond half of February will be mild and hopefully stay that way.


I wonder if this is the beginning of an ice age? This may sound extreme with all the global warming hype but this winter is not consistent with a warming trend at all especially considering this a strong La Nina winter!What you all think about this winter? Is it a blip or a new trend?
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Darkman
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Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 968
Location: Pensacola Florida South of I-10 Zone 8b/9a

Posted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 11:33 pm

Millet wrote:
Yesterday Al Gore pronounced that the entirety of the 2010 - 2011 terrible deep freeze winter season has been caused by man made "global warming". I'm not kidding, believe it or not. he actually made such a pronouncement. In Colorado, yesterday or high temperature for the day was -1F, and the low -20F. Presently it is -11F. - Millet (712)


Gore actually threw in a little truth which is usually necessary to confound fence sitters on the issue. He said the larger more humid and warmer air masses meeting the cold air resulted in heavier snows.

Now if this collision had of happened in Canada resulting in 100" of snow in an hour or so while everything south of there was pushing up daises he might be on to something but since this winter storm is further south than one would expect I fear there are some flaws in his thinking.

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Charles in Pensacola

Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong!

Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable!
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pertman
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Posts: 51
Location: Desert Oasis Ranch, Tucson, Arizona

Posted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 4:07 am

Here is an interesting statistic from today:

Tucson, AZ high--35 degrees, low--14.4 (currently 24 @ 10:56pm)
Anchorage, AK high--31 degrees, low--20 (currently 27 @ 10:56pm)

A moment of silence for all the in-ground citrus in Tucson please ......

Peter
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ivica
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 658
Location: Sisak, Croatia, zone 7b

Posted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 6:42 am

In weather conditions which you guys have these days even simple cover means a lot under main cold attack. I did some meassurement today, more here:
link
I've found that 1 square meter of soil surface adds 0.5C (~1F) to temp inside cover in local conditions.
Soil in your area is significantly warmer, I guess that 1 m^2 (~ 3 square feets) could contribute with 1.5C (3F) at least.

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TRI
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Posts: 399
Location: Homestead, FL Zone 10

Posted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 4:41 pm

It looks like after next week we get a break for all the cold hopefully. For the first 12 days of February the average temperature will likely be about 10F below normal! That is an incredible statistic considering this is a strong La Nina year! Heating degree days will be way way above average especially for the north. The second half of February should be much milder. We shall see.
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Millet
Citruholic
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 6:41 pm

Bare surface of the earth around the tree should be exposed during the winter months, and there should be nothing on the ground to prevent the sun's heat reaching the soil. To add to ivica's post, wet soil will hold more heat then does dry soil. In winter, dry conditions can actually be more damaging than the cold itself. Cold winter air is usually quite dry, and winter winds can remove water from plants faster than the roots can absorb it. This is especially true for evergreens such as citrus, as water evaporates quickly from their foliage. In addition, if the ground freezes, the underground water turns to ice crystals which cannot be absorbed by plant roots. Even dormant plants need and absorb water year-round.
Water acts as an insulator. Plant cells that are plump with water will be stronger against cold damage. Likewise, moist soil will stay warmer than dry soil, so a regular watering schedule in dry, cold weather can help protect plants from freezing temperatures. - Millet (710-)
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