Talking about Florida's many disease problems. Is there no answer on the many abandon citrus groves with in the state, and what Florida is doing about it?

Florida worries so much about the little home owner tree, but looks the other way when it comes to the many diseased and abandon citrus groves.

Does this make any sense? - Millet (322 BO-)

Makes no sense at all...

Respected friends: I am hesitant to write anything here, realizing there is the possibility of hurting feelings or insulting someone, and I don't want to do that. I really do consider all of you to be respected friends. But I think something should perhaps be said, in that the direction of this thread bothers me. What we seem to have is quite a few out-of-state folks poo-poo-ing the efforts of all of us silly, ignorant, stupid, mindless idiots in Florida who try ineptly to grow citrus. Has it really not occurred to us here on the forum that Florida growers and State agencies are very, very well aware of the issues being brought up here, and are already doing absolutely everything in their power to deal with those issues? Yes, there are abandoned groves -- not to the degree that the picture painted here would indicate, but quite a lot. In some cases, grower groups have invested their own money to have those groves sprayed along with their own (especially in the block psyllid spraying efforts). To the degree that they legally can, the State condemns such properties, fines the owners, and/or goes to other legal efforts to get the groves either rehabilitated or razed. But as with all things legal, such actions take time.

I certainly agree that the situation is problematic, but the insults to the State's or the growers' logic and actions is bothering me -- it really isn't warranted.

Respectfully, and hoping you'll try to see our side of this.

Malcolm

A few further thoughts: Epidemiologically, and abandoned grove, regardless of size, can be thought of as a single point, and that point is not moving. Important considerations. In that sense, a single small rooted cutting from Uncle Bob's yard, 2 counties away, carried to my yard and planted, is FAR more effective in moving the disease, than is that thousand-acre abandoned grove just down the road.

Dr. Manners, I don't think anyone is calling anyone silly, ignorant, stupid or mindless idiots. We are just trying to make sense of the situation.

If one looks through this thread, no where will it be found, the words "silly, ignorant, stupid, mindless idiots". I would think that HLB's disease dispersal depends not so much on the actual size of an abandoned grove, but rather on the number of abandoned groves, and their many different locations spread across Florida's commercial citrus area. I'm not sure how far a psyllid flies, but since it was first discovered in Florida, the psyllid can now be found all along the gulf coast and into California. What percentage of this can be traced to Uncle Bob's tree, vs the millions of commercial trees? From what I read over the course of this outbreak, right or wrong, the commercial grower would rather prefer that there were no private citrus trees at all. To be honest, if I personally had a large commercial grove at stake in Florida, I might also carry this perspective. . Whatever, it is hoped that these restrictions will slow the advance of the disease, but will of course not stop it. Finding a cure or resistance , which I believe will be found, now that American University, and government scientist are involved will be found. I'm not totally ignorant of Florida, as I lived in Daytona Beach for a while, my oldest son graduated from Embry Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach- Millet (321 AB0-)

Oh oh, I've offended. I'm sorry. No, I'm not saying anyone actually said we were stupid, ignorant, etc.; rather, the tone of the thread (and others) seems to be that individuals in other parts of the world know more about and have more wisdom about Florida citrus than do our thousands of growers or our department of agriculture, or our UF research centers, or any of the other tens of thousands of people so intimately involved in this industry. It seems to me that any time we come upon one of those "it just doesn't make sense" statements, it indicates an unfortunate lack of understanding the real reasons behind something. I'm sure I must do that too, elsewhere. I'm not an epidemiologist; but I do teach plant pathology and entomology, and it really does make total sense to me to worry far more about moving home-dooryard trees than about non-moving abandoned groves.

I know a lot of commercial growers (many of the better ones of whom are my graduates) and I've never met one who didn't want dooryard trees around -- they nearly always have a favorite 'Minneola' or 'Page' or 'King' or 'Ponkan' or 'Triumph' in their own back yard.

It does seem likely to me that at some point in the not-too-distant future, there may be few or no back yard citrus trees left, simply because preventing greening is too much of a hassle for the average gardener to actually do.

Well, again, I'm sorry if I've stepped on any toes. As stated earlier, you folks are respected friends here. But FWIW, from my point of view, I don't perceive actions of the FDACS, USDA, etc., to be in any way senseless or unwise, or anything less than exactly what they can and should do, within the limits of the law.

If it gets to the point where a homeowner cannot own a tree, then likely the war is already lost. I don't like the idea that they would even consider such a thing myself, but that's for another forum I suppose.

As long as it's legal to own a citrus tree on your home, it should be legal obtain "clean" budwood and propagate on ones own property. I'm not saying there shouldn't be restrictions, just that there should at least be some avenue if one really desired to do so.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but what is the danger if the wood is state certified, pathogen free? Dr Manners care to jump in here? I presume the source wood is the same as nursery stock.

Dr. Manners, at least you did not step on my toes. My skin is much thicker than that. Members of this forum should always feel free to state any point of view that they believe to be correct, and an asset to others. Never worry about other toes Dr. Manners I have long enjoyed, and valued your posting. I would suspect, right or wrong, that some of the disagreement is due to the fact that those of us who are Americans don't much like being told what we must do. Regards, Millet (321 ABo)

So is it also illegal to plant seeds & grow seedlings ?

So how many rats & birds are locked up in jail in FL at this time ?

If a fruit drops from your tree & you don't pick it up and a seed sprouts, are you then breaking the law ?