I found a good website for seeds, mainly exotics but they also sell poncirus trifoliata (flying dragon), so as I'm limited for space I bought a couple of packets to experiment with growing some.

Has anyone got any tips on how to get some success with these seeds please e.g.

- How to sow them e.g. which way up and how far into the compost
- How much watering should they be given
- Do they need to be kept above a certain temperature to germinate. We've had a couple of nights here where it has gone down to 50 - 55 degrees although it shouldn't go any lower than that for at least another month. We usually get a warm(ish) spell at the beginning of September (up to approx 80 degrees)
- Should I use a propagator - should it be heated
- Do these seeds need temperatues that don't fluctuate too much e.g. use a heat controlled propagator
- I've read that the compost needs to be sterile and to put it in the microwave for 10 mins to get rid of any disease or bugs and to use bolied water for watering.

Sorry, lots of questions but if anyone can help with advice or tips that would be great.

Thanks

Hi Nick. I always plant my rootstock in a community pot. Fill the pot with soil, drop the seeds in & even them out, then put about 1/2 inch of soil over them... Our climate will germinate them without a problem outside from April - October. If your getting cold I would apply bottom heat to get them going.

those are gorgeous Laaz!
I put about 5 seeds in each pot when I started mine, they hadnt gotten very tangled at all when I potted them up

I usually kept them from drying out totally- watering every 3-5 days. its still 90 degrees here, I just had lemons come up after 5-7 days or so outside.

Can I ask you where you got seeds (IM if youd like)? Ive purchased seeds from several online folks, and they arent good usually.... I ve gotten good seeds from individuals. Id give them at least a month of waiting before you get discouraged-

Hi garn. You will find many here that will give you some seeds in the fall. I have only one fruit this year. Try contacting Ned, Stan or Bonnie Childers. They usually have a box or two at the Citrus expo that are given away as well.

We should have some FD seed in VB. We may charge a nominal fee to benefit the expo.

We did a rather elaborate experiment a few years ago with Flying Dragon, to see how to maximize germination. We had two populations:

1. Kept continuously damp, never even surface-dried
2. Surface dried over night (the standard system for all commercial Fla. rootstock seed), then sealed in bags.

Within each of those populations above, we then

A. Stored them just sealed in bags with no added moisture, in the fridge (standard commercial nursery procedure)
B. Stored them in thoroughly dampened perlite

We then planted some from each population, starting on day 1, then every 2 weeks thereafter, for about 4 months, if I remember correctly.

The idea was to see the effects of initial drying, continued moisture level, and the effect of stratification (if any).

While we got some germination from all of the treatments, easily the very best germination occurred with the seeds we planted directly, on day 1, never stored and never refrigerated.

We plant in a peat/perlite mix and grow them in plug trays, in a greenhouse where daytime temperatures are 80-95 F, and night temps are never below 65. I'd say those early-planted ones probably never experienced below 70F during germination.

We plant them perhaps 1/4-1/2 inch deep, without paying any attention to the orientation of the seed. (true for all citrus rootstocks, not just FD). If you carefully peel away the seed coat, they'll germinate in about a week. If you leave the seed coat on, it will be 3-4 weeks. But little or no difference in ultimate germination percentage. Florida nurseries never peel them (due to high labor costs); Brazilian nurseries DO peel them.

Thanks Malcolm. Very interesting. I have never dried them. Just remove from the fruit & directly into the planting medium....

Do you have the raw data for each of the treatments? I can statistically analyze them for significant differences.

Thanks Dr. Manners. I have always felt they did better if simple planted and grown when removed from the fruit. Growing them in a plug tray makes potting up a lot easier. I do put some in the frig for people who request them later in the year. I dry them until all surfaces are dry to the touch, put them in a zip lock bag and dust them with captan. This seems to work well.

Joe,
No I don't. I'm in Colorado at the moment, and the data are in Florida. Of course we could run a statistical analysis on them too. Don't know that we did, at the time -- we had large populations, and the differences were large, so significance was pretty well assured. If I remember when I get home, I'll dig up the actual numbers.

Thanks so much.
Now I know how to handle citrus seeds:
Take a fruit home, cut it open, and plant the seeds.

It is realy good that Dr. Manners has done the
experiments and found that
1) the seeds have the best germination when
planted right away, and
2) they have about the same rate of germination
whether or not you peal off the seed coat.

Thanks for all the advice

I'll experiment and see what happens.

Sounds at least as though I'm going to have to add some temperature to my greenhouse until we get another warm spell here.

Nick,
I don't know that Poncirus needs the high temperature; I only know that that's what we gave them and it worked. Poncirus is from substantially colder climates than other citrus, so it may be just fine at a lower temperature. We never tested that.

Nick - have you looked at my web-site pages about where to find Poncirus fruiting in the UK? Fruits are ready late autumn.
http://www.homecitrusgrowers.co.uk/poncirustrifoliata/wheretoseePT.html
I stand the seed pots on a small electrically-heated propagator base, and fresh-from-fruit seeds germinate in about two weeks any time from October through to March. After this the fruits are usually too mouldy to use.
Years ago I bought a few packets of seeds from UK suppliers. Not one ever germinated.
I currently have plenty of one year old Poncirus seedlings. If you're within reach of Denham, near Uxbridge, West of London, you're welcome to collect some.

thats great Citrange-
Weve got Trifoliata in a local state park (along with blackberry lilies, and prickly pear cactus), and there is a long hedge of them at one of the assisted living facilities I work at, on the way to the dumpster.

Neat seed starting data- thanks for sharing Dr. Manners!