I think my CHC mix may be a little light on peat/coir for my weather and I'm curious if adding extra peat to the container after the fact would be a bad idea. I really don't want to take the trees out if I can avoid it. Bad idea?

CHC would not be a good medium choice for out door citrus in AZ, I can tell you that right now. Having had experience with CHC in the past, you will always have the problem of the CHC drying out quickly when out doors, especially in AZ. (CHC can be a good choice for green house or other wise controlled environments, but not out doors! ) . If you add too much peat you create a problem by throwing off the PH and possibly suffocating the roots. That's just something I would not risk with my trees.

My advise is to switch to a standard citrus medium ASAP. You can search this forum for one. normally they contain something like 80% pine/fir bark 20% sand. I bet almost all other successful citrus growers in your are will be using this mix if growing in containers. Or an alternative would be to use something like Promix - a high quality professional mix I swear by and use with all my citrus, if you do choose this mix add a 50lb bag of sand per bale. Good luck on whatever you choose.

I'm kind of committed to the CHC for now. I like that it doesn't break down like bark type mixes and it's cleaner. I think I read that Citrange uses a high peat content in his CHC mixes, close to 50%, if I remember correctly. Also, on PH, our water is very alkaline or hard, so I'm not too concerned about PH. Honestly, if I could find a good premade bagged mix that I didn't have to mess with I'd consider going back. I think I read Laaz uses Perfect Mix, that can be found at Walmart.

I took one of my trees out that was bare rooted in August and placed in CHC/peat and there as been almost zero root growth. Also, despite the peat, the roots seemed almost dry, no mush at all. I'm concerned, maybe rootzone temps have been too low for root growth, or I really messed up by bare rooting the trees? I hate soil, but for a least a few of my trees the CHC may not be working out.

The growing period for citrus in California and Arizona begins approximately the first of March and ends the last of November. During the winter period, between the first of December and the last of February the average temperature is not likely to be much above 55F for more than a short period. It is fairly accurate to consider the nine spring, summer, and fall months as being the period of active growth, and the three winter months as the period of dormancy. Citrus root growth is greatly affected by environmental factors, particularly soil temperature and moisture. Normally citrus trees in Arizona have three distinct cycles of root growth during the warm months, but with careful attention up to 5 periods of root growth can be accomplished per year, which I can attest to personally with my trees. By maintaining approximately a 80F root temperate, plus lighting my in ground Marisol Clementine tree until 10:00 PM nightly, the tree produced 5 root flushes and 5 foliage flushes in a year. This information was posted on this forum perhaps 5 years ago, and can be found if your interested. Growth for roots and foliage begin at temperatures above the vital temperature of 55.4F, but very slowly. The most active periods of root growth occurs when the temperatures are above 80, but below 90F (I personally like 86F). If you keep a container tree's root system at 80F year around and well watered and nourished, the tree's root system will flush new growth approximately every 2 to 2.5 months. Mark, what was the CHC/peat ratio when you first planted your trees, and what size chips did you use? Remember do not be afraid to water your trees thoroughly. CHC mediums cannot be over watered. My trees are grown mostly inside my greenhouse, but are put outside during the summer months. - Millet (718-)

I tried to stick to a 4:1 ratio probably a little more. I used coir at first, then switched to peat. The chips average 1/4 to 1/2 inch I would say. I also tried watering more, even everyday at times. Nothing seems to make a difference. Two of my trees in CHC show signs of under watering. Weeping and drooping leaves. They perk up at times then droop again, almost at random. Extra water hasn't helped. My other trees in CHC seem stable, both no growth since August. The one tree I have in traditional mix, is starting growth now.

I think bare rooting them so late in the year probably didn't help. I know I damaged the roots some and maybe they didn't have time to recover. It's odd though, the trees in question, a W.Murcott and a Moro never dropped their fruit or many leaves. They've just remained in this semi-underwatered looking state for almost 6 months. I blame my decision to bare root mostly.

I can't explain the roots though,on the tree I looked at today, they looked dry (for roots) and had hardly adhered to any of the CHC. I thought, maybe I just need more peat? I would have figured some root growth my now.These trees are also in Rootmaker containers, so the roots get plenty of air.

Sounds like they should be quite easy to withdraw and amend the medium. You did not say what root temperature the trees have been held at for the last 6 months. Temperature and moisture are the two biggest requirements for root growth followed by fertilizing. - Millet (727-)

Millet, they have been outside save a week in the garage. It's been cold, lows to 38 tonight. I haven't been applying much liquid fertilizer. Just Osmocote when I did the transplant.

That's also a concern, with root pruning containers and open CHC, the roots have to be getting colder at night.

Millet, Its great that you and a few can make CHC work in your environment, really it is. But please stop pushing it on everyone in this forum, its like you have a vested interest in this product? You don't seem understand that everyone is not a plant botanist that has a 100+ years of plant experience and can dedicate hours of a day tweaking, watering & monitoring soil temps.

You are over complicating the experience of growing citrus by recommending CHC. This can push people away from the hobby by making it appear harder then it really is. Everyone in this forum looks up to you, its time to look closer at your constant recommendation of CHC. Seriously.

New people to citrus should NEVER start with CHC. CHC should be considered an advanced/specialized medium only used in certain situations.

Ryan, thanks for your opinions, in the future please avoid the sarcasm. Your opinion and those of others are always valuable and helpful. I must reject the point that CHC mediums are advanced/specialized or complicated types of growth mediums. It is just the opposite, CHC is a very simple medium to use. Mainly it is a replacement for pine bark chips, as an ingredient in growing container plants. As to the point that CHC does not work in air pots, in my experience, and the experience of many other citrus growers, it is just simply not true. Every thing I grow, including all the plant varieties I grow other than citrus, are grown in air root pruning containers. All are healthy, well balanced, and doing just fine, and are grown in CHC type of blends. I personally know many citrus growers, growing with CHC in air root pruning containers, plus the many who post on this, and the other forms about their good experience with CHC and air containers. 100s of hobby citrus growers, and 1000s of orchid growers, grow their plants in CHC mediums. Orchids, as citrus, require a medium with good drainage, and good levels of root zone aeration, this is exactly what CHC provides. Everyone on The Citrus Growers Forum are grown-ups, and they are free to use any type of medium that they wish, they certainly do not have to consult me. As I have written MANY TIMES IN THE PAST, the number one medium world wide used by commercial nurseries is 3 parts pine bark, 1 part peat and 1 part coarse sand. Replacing the pine with CHC increases the amount of moisture that the medium is capable of holding, plus making the medium last two to three times longer, while still providing the drainage and aeration. CHC is capable of holding up to 7 times it weight in water (that certainly more than bark). But again everyone is free to use whatever medium they wish to grow their trees.. God bless, and go in peace. - Millet (717-)

I want this CHC to work, but it looks like I'm fighting several issues. The root pruning pots may also be adding to the issue. Had I not bare rooted the trees, I don't think I would be seeing any issues. The timing of my transplant also gave the trees very little time to grow into the mix.

Another point I should make is, I did not use Crystal CHC, which has been crushed. I think the bottom line is that I need a smaller chip size overall and a higher ratio of peat than I used. With the Rootmaker's, water is just dumping out of these pots when I water. It practically straight through.

I made the move to CHC and Rootmakers at the same time, bare rooting all the trees when I did this. I think I just did too much. Most of the trees seem to have settled, I'm just waiting for some growth to confirm everything is OK. I do think I need to add more peat though.


Millet, another post I read you used MG potting soil as the peat component. Is this just the regular green bag stuff? How did it work? That might be a better mix for my situation than just pure peat or coir. Coir by the way did not work, it simply washed out of the mix.

I appreciate everyone's input but I certainly didn't feel pressured to go to CHC. The durablilty of CHC is what attracted me. I do appreciate Ryan and Sylvian's input though. If the CHC doesn't work, I will need another option. The mix Laaz uses honesty would be my first option if I can find it. I don't want to go down the route of buying sand,bark and peat to make a mix. I'm willing to do it with the CHC because after looking at the stuff, I am convinced that it will last for many years. That is a major factor in making this mix work for me.

What is needed is to once again get back to Mark's original concern. I believe Marks real concern is that for one reason or another, his tree has not produced any new root growth (and therefore probably not foliage growth). In my opinion, the elephant in the room is the temperature, and to a much lesser point the lack of nutrition, that his tree has been subject too. Mark's tree has been setting outside throughout the winter, with temperatures as low at 38F, and an average normal daytime temperatures around 55F+-. The growth of citrus roots does not, cannot, and will not, occur at temperatures below 55F. Additionally, VERY LITTLE root growth can be expected at temperatures above but relatively close to 55F. A little root growth can be expected when average temperatures are in the 70s, and excellent root growth at temperatures in the 80s. 86F is a prime temperature. No matter what medium is used, no matter what type of container is used, no matter what type of fertilizer is used, even if the tree is watered with holy water, at this time of year, and at the average temperatures the tree has been setting in, root production cannot be expected - its just not going to happen. Now to Mark's second question, with no growth of the root system, and being in a loose medium I think removing the tree and amending the medium, or changing the medium, should be relatively simple with little or no damage at all to the tree. - Millet (717-)[/u]

Sylvain, I apologize, for misunderstanding you. From the beginning of this thread, the container in question is an air root pruning container. When you wrote a follow up post using the words "Air pots", one would naturally think you were writing about the container that is in question here. Mark's tree is in an air root Ppuning container. To tell you the truth, I have never heard of, nor seen a cone shaped air pot. Anyway, please accept my apology. - Millet (717-)