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plantcrazy2230
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Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 50
Location: Michigan

Posted: Tue 02 Apr, 2013 12:28 am

I tried the 50/50 Cedar/Peet. When mixing it was really fluffy! Water Drained thru fairly quickly. 2 Oranges 1 Lemon. It will be interesting to see how fast the Soil dries out when they go outside when the Weather warms up.
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Synovia
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Joined: 10 Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Location: Richmond,Va - 7B/8A

Posted: Tue 02 Apr, 2013 2:38 pm

Millet wrote:
Many people the world over use pine bark. Commercially pine bark is the single most used ingredient in a container tree medium. This is because it is readily available, inexpensive, and generally will last for at least one year, which is considered the amount of time reauired for a nursery to sell their trees. Container growth media can be made of many things, as long as their combined particle distribution provides for reasonable water retention and sufficient aeration for root functions, and there are no toxic elements or agents present. There is no one best container growth medium. Important factors for consideration in formulating media for ornamental plants and trees include appearance, shrinkage loss, rate of decomposition, bulk density, water holding capacity, non-capillary air space, uniformity, pH, salinity, and moisture holding capacity. Most every nurserymen agree that whatever medium you choose, that at least 1/3 of the blend should be peat moss, or a peat moss type product. - Millet


I was with you until you said 1/3 of the blend should be peat moss. In my area (coastal Maryland), 1/3 of the blend being peat moss basically means ending up with waterlogged plants with no roots every spring.

So, know your climate. Everyone's is different, and different conditions mean different planting mediums. I use very fast mediums with very little water retention, because thats what my climate requires. If you live in Arizona, you should probably be using very different media than I do.
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6657
Location: Colorado

Posted: Tue 02 Apr, 2013 5:50 pm

Synoiva,what I wrote above holds true for container culture in general, and the statement is considered true and valuable. I would not be afraid to water a good draining medium containing 1/3 peat moss every day. This I have done, and on many days watered twice and even three times a day for months and months, which I have done in an experiment, and you can read the results of this experiment on this forum. Citrus can be grown in a 100 percent water culture, with Hydroponics -culture as a example. The medium I currently use contains 50% peat, its drainage is exceptional, root zone aeration is high, and could be watered three times a day without any concern what so ever. Remember, it is NOT the amount of water retained by the medium that causes damage to the tree, it is the lack of oxygen that causes the problem. The number one (#1) ingredient for good tree growth is water, nothing is more impmortant than water, and mediums that do not retain water well are not mediums for good tree growth. - Millet
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Synovia
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Joined: 10 Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Location: Richmond,Va - 7B/8A

Posted: Tue 02 Apr, 2013 6:48 pm

Millet, I agree with you in principle (about the theory/etc), but in my particular climate, with the peat-moss thats available to me locally, a 1:1:1 peat/bark/perlite mix ends up being a soaking mess by the end of spring.

With the peat moss available to me, 1/3 peat moss guarantees a high perched water table in the pots, and that guarantees dead roots.

5-1-1 (bark/perlite/peat) is about borderline where I stop having problems in my climate. Even it stays wetter than I'd like.

I'm using 1:1:1(Bark/granite grit/turface) right now, and its working great. The initial move of plants into this mix is tough, but once they get used to it, they take off. This mix probably wouldn't work in arid climates though.
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
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Location: Colorado

Posted: Tue 02 Apr, 2013 10:28 pm

Synovia, its your tree, you can certainly grow it as you wish, the very best to you and your tree. One comment: peat moss is a product that holds water, therefore, by definition it has nothing at all to do with the perched water table. Items like gravel, rocks, granate, and etc. are what raises the perch water table higher up into a container. - Millet
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babranch
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Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 42
Location: Manor, Georgia

Posted: Wed 03 Apr, 2013 12:24 am

Most of the container production in the southeast is primarily pine bark with a small amount of peat and sand added. Some growers down here use only an aged bark that will have lime added for pH adjustment. As Millet mentioned, this is due to the low cost of bark. Down here I can buy aged bark for around $10/cubic yard. Comparatively, a cubic yard of peat is about $85, and a cubic yard of perlite is $81. Adding fine aged bark to a mix creates a soil environment similar to the addition of peat by having about the same water holding capacity.
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6657
Location: Colorado

Posted: Wed 03 Apr, 2013 1:26 am

What babranch wrote above is the most used growth medium mixture in the entire world. The number one mix used by nurseries world wide for container tree production is as babranch wrote 3 parts ground conifer bark, 1 part peat, and 1 part concrete sand. The aforementioned mix offers low cost, ready availability, is reproducible from batch to batch, ease of mixing, appearance, cation exchange capacity, pH, root zone aeration, good water holding capacity, good particle size, standard density and uniformity, will last for a year or more, at the commonly lowest commercial cost. - Millet
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Synovia
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Joined: 10 Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Location: Richmond,Va - 7B/8A

Posted: Wed 03 Apr, 2013 3:42 pm

Millet wrote:
Synovia, its your tree, you can certainly grow it as you wish, the very best to you and your tree. One comment: peat moss is a product that holds water, therefore, by definition it has nothing at all to do with the perched water table. Items like gravel, rocks, granate, and etc. are what raises the perch water table higher up into a container. - Millet



Peat most certainly affects the perched water table. The height of the perched water table is determined by average particle size in the mix, and capillary action. The smaller the particle size, the more gravity that capillary action can overcome.

Peat heavily affects the perched water table because of its small particle size, and its absorbent qualities. We've all seen a pot full of peat suck water up from a dish...its the principle almost every seed-starting tray is built on.

If I were to fill a large pot with just peat, it would have a high water table. It would be a soppy mess in the bottom half. If I were to fill it with gravel larger than 1/4", there would be no perched water table.
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6657
Location: Colorado

Posted: Wed 03 Apr, 2013 5:32 pm

Tthis post is dragging on, and I don't want to argue, so lets agree to disagree. Look into what a perched water table actually is. Anyway, the best to you and your tree(s). I am going to move on. - Millet
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