Citrus Growers Forum

GT · Posted: Wed 01 Aug, 2012 2:30 am

Darkman wrote:

When I was new to Citrus and was researching the the Meyer Lemon and the "Improved" I was discouraged because I could not find the IMPROVED.

As I dug further into research I found that the Non-Improved is no longer sold and all the current "Meyer Lemons" were improved and it was no longer necesssary to tag them Improved.

Further research revealed the the "Improved" was simply a standard Meyer that did not have the disease that was devastating the Meyer Lemons and it was from that one tree that all Meyers are now derived.

Original Meyers Non-Improved eventually developed the disease and died or where destoyed with only minimal non-improved trees left in the world only because they have not been exposed to the disease or those trees are genetically "Improve Meyer Lemons'" naturally and not designated as such by man.

I hope that makes sense. It does to me but then again I had a stressful day and have enjoyed a bit of Bourbon tonight.

While I'm expounding on things that are way "above my pay grade" let me say this. I believe that although all "Improved Meyer Lemons" should be genetically identical there are still environmental factors to consider. These factors could explain why some IPMLemons have better taste than others and why the zest of some are better than others.

I have now extended my brain cells way beyond the normal limits and invite others to thoroughly destroy my thoughts on this subject

Thanks for reading if you stayed with it this long.

Darkman, I totally agree with you. Curiously, I had a similar experience choosing between "improved" and "regular"... One local nursery was selling two types of Meyers: rooted cuttings labeled as just ML and grafted ones labeled as IML. I asked the owner about the difference (except for the price and grafted/non-grafted) and he said: "they are identical! just came from different propagators". Guess, some nurseries omit the "improved" on labels/descriptions out of laziness and since "everyone knows they are the same".

I also agree that soil, amount of sunlight, water, temperature, and other environmental factors may affect the taste quite a bit. Laaz mentioned that in-ground Meyers can produce much larger fruits. Perhaps, this may explain the taste difference too.

MarcV · Posted: Wed 01 Aug, 2012 3:55 am

GT wrote:

I also agree that soil, amount of sunlight, water, temperature, and other environmental factors may affect the taste quite a bit. Laaz mentioned that in-ground Meyers can produce much larger fruits. Perhaps, this may explain the taste difference too.

Makes sense. Smile

I don't like the scent of the peel of my meyers but the juice is perfectly fine! My wife uses it in her tea! Wink

One more "useless" addition to the discussion... I think the "improved" prefix is not well chosen. The way I interpret it is that this implies someone manipulated the original meyer to make it better. Cool

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Sanguinello · Gest

well, well ...

When nurseries sold both adult plants you easily could see the difference :

Original fruits look very much like oranges, and if not known as "lemon" you never think it is a lemon ...
Improved looks like a normal lemon and you never think it could be an orange.

I tried to show that by the pics in the links I gave, but I don´t wanna this becomes a religion war between believers .. Wink

Laaz · Posted: Wed 01 Aug, 2012 10:29 am

They are one in the same, if you see a difference it's in your head or one of the plants is not a Meyer.

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Darkman · Posted: Wed 01 Aug, 2012 11:54 am

Sanguinello wrote:

well, well ...

When nurseries sold both adult plants you easily could see the difference :

Original fruits look very much like oranges, and if not known as "lemon" you never think it is a lemon ...
Improved looks like a normal lemon and you never think it could be an orange.

I tried to show that by the pics in the links I gave, but I don´t wanna this becomes a religion war between believers .. Wink

This is a statement that reports the origins of the "Improved Meyer Lemon". It is off of Wikipedia but references Four Winds Growers. Their web page modestly says they had a big part in the "Improved".

A virus-free selection was found in the 1950s by Don Dillon of the California company Four Winds Growers,[6] and was later certified and released in 1975 by the University of California as the 'Improved Meyer lemon' Citrus × meyeri 'Improved'.[7][8]

Perhaps there was a different "Meyer" that sold on the EU continent and when the "Improved" became available it was sold there too resulting in two dissimilar trees with the same name.

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Charles in Pensacola

Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong!

Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable!

Laaz · Posted: Wed 01 Aug, 2012 12:45 pm

Or, the European Meyer was a seedling from the original plant. Meyer does not come true to type & that may be the issue.

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Millet · Posted: Wed 01 Aug, 2012 1:21 pm

If it was a different "Meyer" then of course it is not a Meyer lemon. It is some type of another fruit. - Millet

Sanguinello · Gest

When Meyer was found in Shanghai by Mr. Meyer, it was propagated by cuts and used as a perfect rootstock for at least 30 years worldwide only.

Darkman · Posted: Wed 01 Aug, 2012 8:11 pm

Millet wrote:

If it was a different "Meyer" then of course it is not a Meyer lemon. It is some type of another fruit. - Millet

Agreed and that was my point. Just because a nursery or propagator labeled it so doen't make it so. Mistakes and in some cases deceptions to make a buck do occur.

Sanguinello wrote:

When Meyer was found in Shanghai by Mr. Meyer, it was propagated by cuts and used as a perfect rootstock for at least 30 years worldwide only.

No doubt that is true but that does not stop someone from growing them from seed or growing many of them from seed which would explain variances in plants. As far as, I know at least in my area, Meyer Lemons are propagated with cuttings.

_________________
Charles in Pensacola

Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong!

Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable!

Sanguinello · Gest

yes, I agree

Lemandarangequatelo · Citruholic Joined: 01 Mar 2010 Posts: 483 Location: UK

hoosierquilt wrote:

Just gotta figure out what to do with the gazillion regular, unknown variety lemon I have that are ginormous, very juicy and seedless. Still do not know what variety they are. They're awfully good though, and lemon trees grow like weeds here, so this tree is so prolific, it is actually falling over. I'm going to have to prune away a very large branch to even up this poor little tree that was nearly dead when I moved in to our home 3 years ago.

This unknown lemon of yours sounds awesome, have you had any luck identifying it yet? How large and how heavy do the lemons get? How much juice do you get from a single lemon? When you prune the branch do you think I could get some budsticks from you if possible? Sorry for all the questions lol Smile

hoosierquilt · Posted: Thu 11 Oct, 2012 2:37 am

Well, it's definitely a Sorrento-type lemon. That I would bet my bottom dollar on. Based on that, and where I live, what's available in California, as far as Italian lemons go, and the fact that the previous owners who planted this lemon were Italian, I would bet it is a Santa Teresa Femminello lemon. Willits & Newcomb do propagate this variety, and I'm guessing this is what I have. I will have to go out a pick a bunch and post photos. Some are so large, I thought at first it might have been a Pondersosa, but the skin and pith are pretty thin. Very juicy, and seedless/nearly seedless. And, Lemandarangequatelo, since I live in California, I can't send any portion of my citrus trees out of state, sorry. Crying or Very sad

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Patty S.

Lemandarangequatelo · Citruholic Joined: 01 Mar 2010 Posts: 483 Location: UK

Thanks very much for the detailed information! Smile

No worries I understand, I'll try and source it here in Europe if possible. Are they known to grow that large or do you have a mutation?

I look forward to the pics!

hoosierquilt · Posted: Thu 11 Oct, 2012 1:52 pm

Actually, you should have an easier time of it, finding a variety of Sorrento lemons in the UK and Europe. Yes, many Sorrento-type lemons are quite large, with this lumpy skin texture. That's what led me to the identification. That, and the fact the the previous owners were Italian and tried to find Italian cultivars.

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Patty S.

gregn · Posted: Sat 27 Oct, 2012 4:55 pm

Personally, I like Meyer lemons for the main reason : they grow well Laughing

in North Vancouver Canada albeit with plenty of winter protection. As a matter of fact I had the local newspaper come out and take some photos this past Wednesday (which I hope will make it to print) My Meyers range in size from golf ball to a large navel orange.

I have about 50 ready to harvest - which plan to do that on Nov 4th then take them to a friends place and make a batch of marmalade

Greg

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Gregn, citrus enthusiast. North Vancouver Canada. USDA zone 8. I grow In-ground citrus, Palms and bananas. Also have container citrus