Citrus Growers Forum

JoeReal · Posted: Thu 17 May, 2007 3:55 pm

harveyc wrote:

Wow, Joe, this has got you worked up and I am sorry that is the case.

No need to apologize. As you already know where I am coming from, but would like to mention it here: Zeba has many merits, especially for potted plants. I don't disagree with that. It is just that the technology is very good especially for Third World countries relying on rainfed agriculture. I like it so much as it can help tremendously ease the pain of world hunger, but because of its pricing, it cannot be used for such social humanitarian and philantropic applications. We have one of the practical solutions, but greed is preventing its implementation. So you should understand that sometimes I get so much frustration. Well, unless someone else would come up with the same concept independently and donate it for mankind....

harveyc wrote:

I can't find very many things in society that are sold close to the cost of production. Many farm products are the first thing that comes to mind....maybe we're just not that greedy, eh?

That is why I respect the farmers a lot. They are the dwindling types in this country. The corporate has taken over most of them, and the corporate billionaire will even rake-in millions as subsidies which should have been alloted for real farmers, and can't believe those abuses by millionaires and billionaires milking out this country for subsidies. Well it is legal loophole, so why not? The inward conscience and moral values have been truly degraded or ignored for those who have the means, but that would be an off-topic to elaborate.

One of the main reasons why in the US, our buying power is well-off compared to other countries because of low prices of food produced by the farmers at a great sacrifice with almost very little profit if at all. The increased yield and lowered cost of production is shared by the society at large in the form of lower prices relative to the earnings. We learned this in my graduate studies when we try to understand why it is really good to offer subsidies to deserving farmers. But then again, there are potential for much abuse by others. But as a whole, due to the subsidies and the farmer's sacrificial profits, I have my full respects as they battle out the various risks and calamities, so that we can have lower priced food affordable by everyone.

harveyc wrote:

Profits drive inventors to take risk and explore new possibilities. Who pays for those losses from projects that bore no fruit? How much has the fancy packaging cost and how much has the retailer marked up the product and paid its employees to shelve it, etc.? I would suspect OPC Farms paid less than $2/pound, but I suspect you don't want to buy those kinds of quantities. I offered you some for free to try out since my 16 ounces will last me a very long time. You should have taken me up and saved yourself some grief. Wink

How much profit is truly enough? For profit corporations are only focused on the bottom line, moral values nor benefits to mankind on the larger scale have been set aside. There are good and bad sides to this. We have many innovations as a result, but at least those who are already rich should share for the improvement of the less fortunate ones. Only I can hope, because the very nature of capitalism, this is just one of those wishes that are brushed aside as these are bad financial decisions. Unless much money is their only security and really their key to happiness, then there is no hope.

harveyc wrote:

You mention that Zeba decomposes and releases carbon into the atmosphere. However, its source of starch originally tied up carbon from the atmosphere, so there is no net difference except that carbon is died up for a few years, possibly.

Yes, Zeba in a way could be carbon neutral in some context, but there is a big catch that it is not. Fossil energy was spent to produce it, from planting of the corn to harvesting and finally to the harvest. Whatever carbon that has been trapped by the corns are returned when Zeba decomposes. Storage are temporary in the soil and if we assume steady state and finite amount of storage as it will escape back within a year. But the amount of energy spent to farm the corn to produce Zeba is quite a significant amount of carbon dioxide that is added to the atmosphere.

harveyc wrote:

I posted this in the container forum because I considered this is where it is probably best applied in a temporary situation to aid in plant growth. It is here that sometimes my busy schedule leads me to not watering my plants when I should and I hope that this may just give me a bit of a safety net. It claims to reduce soil crusting so I may also try it in a few spots in my vegetable garden if I ever get around to planting it. Not on everything, but more for small seeds, etc.

I believe that this is one of the best applications of Zeba for us hobbyists and home growers who can afford to spend some money. I can truly see significant potential applications in mostly third world countries and developing nations who are doing rainfed farming and Zeba would be perfect for those applications if only priced right.

harveyc wrote:

I am curious about the charcoal you mention. What form/source are you referring to? What other effects may it have on soil (i.e., pH)?

Terra preta is the final form of soil structure that has charcoal incorporated into it after many long years. Chemically it should not affect the pH, but the interaction of living things and the abiotic elements within it and how specific nutrients are taken up or added would determine the pH in the long term. It has both anions and cation sites. It has very good buffering when it comes to pH so that the pH do not vary wildly.