How many years before a seedling satsuma bears fruit? I planted a seed from a Orlando Tangelo 7 years ago but was forced to remove it because it was shading my mother's tulip garden.

So far I was only able to germinate one seedling in about 10 attempts. I know the seeds are not viable for long and planted them all within 15 minutes after removed from the fruit. How deep must you bury the seeds in the soil and what temperature is necessary? Maybe I let the soil dry out and the seeds died?

I don't know on the years. But germination I just stick in ground far enough so I see the top flush with the soil and water.

Your Orlando Tangelo would probably be a new variety--I do not think it is true to type, but you could have moved it.

As for the satsuma, it will probably take around 7-10 yrs depending on growth rate. Seeds will sprout quicker if it is warmer--85 F is a good temp--at that temp it will take 1-2 weeks to sprout--you can plant them about 1 inch deep.

I planted some seed from Stan's place 4 years ago. The trees produced their first fruit this past fall, so I would say 4-5 years from seed in the ground. It may take longer in a container.

Orlando is highly nucellar, and nearly always comes true-to-type from seed. Same with Satsumas. I'd think with normal, outdoor growth, you could fruit a Satsuma in 4 years? That seems about right.

Citrus seeds can be dried out for several days without harming them, and if then put in the fridge (in a closed plastic bag) may live a year or more. But surely, planting them fresh is best. Yes, if your seeds started to sprout in the soil and then got too dry, that could kill them.

I've had various citrus fruit from seed in 2-5 years. However, a friend waited 17 years for a cocktail grapefruit to fruit. I'll be planting a large handful of satsuma seeds this spring.

I have some fruit stored in refrigerator since November. The seeds from this fruit should still be good?

Yes, the seeds in fruit should be good as long as the fruit is good or even longer.

Dr. Manners, Isn't an Orlando Tangelo a hybrid like Minneola? I knew satsumas were nucellar, but I am surprised that the Orlando Tangelo is.

I have several on the farm that are seedlings and I really cant remember how old they are. Id think in the 5-6yr range. I saw a few flowers on one of them last year but no fruit. Im hoping they will fruit this season. They also appear to be very cold hardy as they are totally unprotected and have seen some very cold temps this winter. Two nights with lows of 15F and a 2 week period where we had below freezing every night.

Hey Skeeter,
Yes, 'Orlando' and 'Minneola' are siblings ('Dancy' x 'Duncan'). But both are highly nucellar. Nucellar embryony and hybridity are independent of each other. Swingle used 'Dancy' as the female parent (highly nucellar) and 'Duncan' as the pollen parent (also highly nucellar), and then looked at the seed bed for obviously hybrid seedlings. That's easy to do if the mandarin is the female parent -- all those little nucellar seedlings will make small leaves with little or no petiole wing, whereas the hybrids will have obviously larger leaves with petiole wings. And in the case of these two hybrids, the leaves are also wavy or curly, so they really stand out in the crowd.

'Orlando' has been used somewhat, in the past, as a rootstock under other mandarin types, and as such, is sufficiently nucellar to give a good yield of clonal seedlings in the nursery.

I think I remember reading here that Minneola needs a pollinizer ( or gibbing) to set a good crop. Wouldn't that mean the seeds are mostly zygotic hybrids.

My Minneola is grafted with Ambersweet and Mandarin and set a pretty good crop for a young tree--it is seeded, but very juicy.

I hope it is okay to include this comment in this thread

Malcom, I read with great interest what you said about the leaves on the nucellar seedlings.

November 2008 I planted about twenty Sunburst seeds. I believe I got about 39 or so seedlings from that planting. I have noted with interest that the very tall ones have the large winged petiole leaves, and the short many- branched seedlings have very small leaves with no winged petiole at all.
Which ones are the hybrids and which are the nucellar?
I asked on this forum earlier if those seedlings would be suitable for rootstock, but I suppose no one was familiar enough with them to give an answer. Would you perhaps know....?

It's good to know they fruit fairly early!

I am sure Dr Manners can contribute more, but nucellar (clonal) seedlings will look just like the parent, the hybrid (zygotic) seedlings will be different from the parent--they are new varieties and may have new good or bad properties as rootstock or fruit. Rootstocks are chosen for several different properties--vigorous or dwarfing growth, resistance to disease, soil condition preferences. Most of these properties require a good deal of experimentation to determine, but the rate of growth factor in the conditions you have will be fairly obvious pretty quick.

Skeeter, as far as I know, the need for a pollenizer and the presence or absence of nucellar embryony are completely independent of each other. I also believe (but don't have a reference to cite at the moment) that ALL nucellar types MUST have a sexually produced embryo present, before the nucellar cells begin to differentiate into embryos. Then later, the zygote often dies, leaving nothing but nucellars. But I've never heard of a totally asexual shortcut. And yes, 'Minneola' is highly nucellar, and yes, it needs a pollenizer (not 'Orlando') or gibbing for good fruit set.

I know I've asked this before but what happens when 2 to 3 year old seedling budwood is grafted to a mature rootstock?