Hi, my name is Sally & I was recently given a valencia orange tree as a mother's day present. It is about 9feet tall & I have joined the forum as I have never owned a citrus before. Can anyone in or around the Chicago area give me tips on keeping it healthy through the winter. It is in a south facing room, but will I need any artificial light to aid it in our dark winter months? I have attached some pictures so you can see the number of windows in the room.

Also it has lost alot of leaves & tiny immature fruit in the month I have had it. This may be due to the stress of the move. The leaves are yellowing - I have attached a picture of one - could anybody out there take a look & let me know if there is a problem with the tree. At first I only watered weekly, I have increased to twice weekly & have got less leaf drop in the past week. I have not yet fertilised my tree, but am off to the garden centre to purchase some today.

Thank you for any assistance

Sally

I'll take a stab at this since I kept some alive for 3-4 years in a spare bedroom. I'd like to start off by saying that is one tall puppy of a tree! Since the tree is fruiting already and you have no choice but to bring it into the house during winter, I would seriously consider pruning it back some. I would keep it outside during our spring and summer when temps allow it.

As for the watering? I would first find out to see when the last time your tree had been repotted. Chances are it needs a new and bigger home. This will also allow you to view the root structure and see if that's a mess or not. Some root pruning will probably be needed as well. You can look at some of the old posts on here to find the best potting mix for your tree. The important thing is that it drains well. And when the top couple of inches of soil is dry, then water.

Joe, Millet and a few others are the experts here and hopefully they will add their two cents worth. The artificial light would definitely benefit the plant. Metal halides are expensive to run and will make that part of the home really warm!

I'm not an expert, but just want ot let you know that overwatering is much more likely to kill the tree than underwatering. Don't water unless the soil is dry 2-3 inches deep.

It is normal for the tree to shed some leaves--if they fall with the petiole (the part that attaches to the tree) they are just old and nothing is wrong, if they fall with the petiole still attached to the tree it is due to stress of some kind. Also normal to shed fruit-- the tree will only keep what it can support.

Welcome to the fourm. We are very happy to have you as a member, thank you for joining. I would not prune any of the branches on your tree. During the first few years, there is no need to cut all, or even part of these vigorous sprouts, since research has shown that any cut to a young citrus tree reduces root growth. This is due to the equilibrium between foliage and the root system. A citrus tree's root system and foliage are a biological unit Cuts on a young tree discourages canopy growth and delays the tree from coming into bearing. It is not wise to make any cut at the beginning. After a few years of growth, depending on the speed of the tree growth, climate and cultural practices, a VERY SELECTIVE canopy thinning may be carried out. A harmonious citrus tree grows to an almost round shape. . - Millet

Personally I would prune it way back as well. You can see where it was topped before. A tree this size in a low light indoor environment will become very "leggy" meaning it will develop very long thin branches.

Good luck with it & welcome to the forum.

WOW, what a great tree! Just wanted to welcome you to the group and I am too new to the hobby give you advice but the experts are helping already so... glad you joined us!

Citrus trees do not require as much light as most people think. The chlorophyll pigments in the leaves of a citrus tree uses light to manufacture photosynthates (sugars), the trees food, in a process called photosynthesis. Citrus maximizes the manufacture of photosynthates at a value of only 650 PAR and the rest of the sun's wave length energy is not needed nor used. It has long been known that citrus trees grow better when the tree is located in an area where it receives partial shade than do trees growing in full sunshine all day. Looking at room with the all the south facing windows, the room will provide ample light resources for her tree. In smoggy cities such as the Chicago area, the CO2 level can be as high as 500 PPM, which is enough CO2 for even a medium-light indoor tree. By just having a good circulating fan to move air through the tree's leaves, the CO2 available to the tree becomes even greater. The more light available to a tree, the more CO2 it needs for maxim photosynthesis. A citrus tree is 90 percent carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. Experiments have shown that during photosynthesis, it takes about 1 a photons to make enough electrons to create sufficient energy to split one CO2 molecule into carbon (c) and oxygen (02) atoms and form a sugar (the tree's food). There are trillions of photons striking the plant leaves, and if and when the CO2 level ever becomes used up, the photons just bounce off the leaves without doing much. If the tree is kept between 72 and no higher than 86F her tree should receive close to maximum benefit. The chance of the tree becoming "Leggie and spindly" is non existent. It is her tree, and she can, of course, do what she wishes, but if it were my tree I would transplant it into a 4 inch larger container and I certainly would not prune it. Pruning will only greatly reduce any production of fruit. - Millet

Millet, to a certain extent, I have observed leggy and spindy for some citruses that are in the shade, those that were planted in the alley ways, at least for the early part of their lives until they reach the sunlight. Being spindy or leggy is somewhat relative, and am comparing those to my citruses under full sunlight. Also in the presence of winds, trees tend to have stouter trunks, that is why when we stake them, we make sure there are movements to allow the trunks to budge, otherwise, those trunks would remain small for a lot longer time. So we tend to put the support low also to allow swaying of the trees. So in your terms, there could be no spindy trees, if you meant as thin as sticks which can happen with young stone fruit seedlings.

It is correct that the light saturation of most citrus cultivars are on the low end and they can tolerate shade to a certain degree.

Hi Millet. I have seen many very large citrus trees here in homes with large sunny windows. They are very leggy and sparse. They do produce fruit but do not look very good. From my experience the plants in shade are quite a bit less robust than the trees in full sun. Most all of my citrus is in-ground. When I leave smaller trees under the larger trees the small ones will start to get leggy & reach for the light. You see this in most all plants... Millet you commented on my Chinotto not having a dense canopy like most you have seen. I explained I had it growing in shade to force it to grow & reach for the light. It is now in full sun & all the new growth is dense & compact. I'll have to get a good photo of it up this weekend.

As far as topping the tree, it will not set the tree back by much as it looks like it is a grafted tree. If this is the case the budwood was taken from a mature tree and will produce as such. By topping the tree it will force better foliage lower down in the canopy...

Like Millet stated it is your tree to do what you like.

Millet & I like to disagree on certain things. Many things that work for me, do not work for him & vice versa... You have to find what works for you. We give you the best advice we can, but under certain conditions you may need to adapt.

Wow - what a wealth of information! Thank you!

I will probably not prune it for now - I think I should see how it does in the conditions before i make any decisions. The leaves that have fallen do not have the petioles attached - I may be overwatering, or under feeding, so I will address that first & see how we get on.

When I asked for a lemon tree for a present I expected a 1 footer, which i could easily move indoors or out, I must say I was very taken aback to get such a huge tree & whilst it is beautiful, it is a huge responsibility to try & keep it alive. I can only do my best ......

sally

Heres a quick reference... Flying dragon seedlings planted the same day last fall. The container on the right I keep in the shade on the north side of my house. The pot on the left is kept in direct sun. As you see the plants kept in shade are taller & stretching to find the light. I have done this on purpose to try & get them to budding size quicker with more budding spots on them...



My Chinotto...

Junglekeeper I haven't unpotted them yet to compare roots, but the stems of full sun plants are much shorter but have a thicker diameter.

Lazz, your rootstock growth rate is interesting. I have been thinking about mentioning an observation of my own here for some time, but thought you would all think I was crazy.

I also grow some of my rootstock in community pots. The surprise observation I have made is that the best growth I get is in high shade with lots of water! I found this out when I left some of the community pots in an area that gets overhead watering twice a day in midsummer. The seedlings stay soaked all of the time! These plants have the best growth rate, and reach budding size quicker, than any others I have grown. I take them out and pot them to larger citrapots before budding and the roots are always in perfect shape. I now grow virtually all of my rootstock in this area.

This flies in the face of what I have always thought (and told others) about citrus. Too much water causes root rot! In this situation that simply is not the case. I now grow all of my rootstock in this area. I am tempted to sit a grafted tree there to see what happens. I have surmised that the heavy watering may be causing the oxygen level to remain high in the medium, through a flushing action. Anyone have any idea what is going on here?

I hasten to add, no one should commence overwatering their citrus based of these observations. I still regulate the water on all of my other citrus taking care not to over, or under, water.

Ned

One other thing I do with the seedlings, to make them grow tall and straight, is cut the bottom out of a container the same size as the container the seedlings are in. I then set this around the seedlings to force them to reach for the sun. After they have gained the desired height, I take the extra pot from around them.

Ned