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Citrus Growers Forum
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JoeReal Site Admin
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 4726 Location: Davis, California
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Posted: Wed 20 Feb, 2008 1:09 am |
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Tell me the caliper (or diameter of the red delicious branch about 4" away from the trunk) of the branch and I will save you appropriate diameter size of Golden Dorsett. |
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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Posted: Wed 20 Feb, 2008 1:44 am |
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JoeReal wrote: | Tell me the caliper (or diameter of the red delicious branch about 4" away from the trunk) of the branch and I will save you appropriate diameter size of Golden Dorsett. |
It's pretty small still. I measured 0.11 inches with my calipers.
Phillip |
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JoeReal Site Admin
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 4726 Location: Davis, California
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Posted: Wed 20 Feb, 2008 2:29 am |
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You can graft a small 1/8" diameter using cleft graft unto it. But it wouldn't be vigorous. You can forget about that branch and graft unto others that have split into several bigger branches. Do the other cultivars have forked into bigger branches already? |
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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Posted: Wed 20 Feb, 2008 3:22 am |
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JoeReal wrote: | You can graft a small 1/8" diameter using cleft graft unto it. But it wouldn't be vigorous. You can forget about that branch and graft unto others that have split into several bigger branches. Do the other cultivars have forked into bigger branches already? |
Some of the other branches are larger, but none of them started forking yet. Attached is a picture of the tree that I got last night, but it's hard to make anything out. The Red Delicious is the very last graft on the top of the tree.
On a different note, what grafting technique do they use to make combo trees like this. It doesn't look like the buds I'm accustomed to and I don't know how they would force all of the buds anyway. It almost looks like side grafting, but can they do that 5 times without killing the rootstock above the first couple of grafts?
Phillip
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Skeeter Moderator
Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 2218 Location: Pensacola, FL zone 9
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Posted: Wed 20 Feb, 2008 11:47 am |
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Congratulations on your find!
As for how they graft trees like apples and peaches, the most common method is cleft (also called whip or tongue graft). You match the diameter of the limb at the point you are going to graft, make a matching long diagonal cut on both pieces, then make a short cut angled inward on the cut face of each piece. Put them together so that the short tongues are inserted into each other and then wrap with grafting tape.
You can do a cleft graft on any part of the trunk or branches, but as the diameter gets bigger than 1/2 inch it becomes easier to do bark grafts. _________________ Skeet
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JoeReal Site Admin
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 4726 Location: Davis, California
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Posted: Wed 20 Feb, 2008 11:59 am |
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They use chip budding on those multiple grafting when the rootstock is still small. Unlike citruses, the multiple chip budding on a single trunk will readily sprout with pome type fruit trees. |
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bastrees Citruholic
Joined: 16 Jun 2007 Posts: 232 Location: Southeastern PA
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Posted: Wed 20 Feb, 2008 12:53 pm |
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All of this talk about grafting apples makes me want to try to graft a pollinizer to my two apple trees. I have two young trees, one is a staymen, one of my favorites, but sterile. The other is a granny smith, which I love for baking. My granny smith will pollinate my staymen, but not vice versa. My neighbor has a yellow delicious, which is close enough to my trees to do the job, but since it is not my tree and he could decide to remove it... I would not get good pollination, since the next nearest apple is a crabapple about 100 yards away. My mother has a yellow delicious of a size that a few donations of scion to her daughter would not impact her production, so I could ask her to collect wood for me to give it a try. Is February in PA the proper time to do this? If I follow all the advice in this forum, I believe I would store this scion wood sealed in zip bags and in the crisper of my frig; is this correct? I think I would also wait to attempt the graft when the tree buds are breaking, since this would be my absolute first attempt at grafting in any way, shape or form. That would also give me the time to get all the grafting supplies that I would need.
In reading about the different types of grafting, I think I would be most comfortable attempting a cleft graft for my first try. Joe or anyone else who is an avid grafter, could you suggest a ranking of the easiest to hardest type of grafting for someone who has never attempted? This would obviously be top work, so I do not think budding or chip budding would be ideal for this situation, but any input on that would also be appreciated. Thank you Dauben and Joe for fueling my interest in doing this, Barbara |
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JoeReal Site Admin
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 4726 Location: Davis, California
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Posted: Wed 20 Feb, 2008 2:11 pm |
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Try the bark grafting tutorial when the barks are slipping. You can use smaller diameter scionwood to graft unto bigger diameter destination branch. It is one of the easiest as you need to only slice one side.
Yes, wrap the scionwood with moistened paper towel, put inside ziploc bag and place in the crisper until the stock is blooming. Then do your grafting. you can do bark grafting well into fall, so that is a lot of time. The earliest you can do it is when the bud swells, usually the bark can be lifted easily for the bark grafting operation. |
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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Posted: Wed 20 Feb, 2008 6:36 pm |
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JoeReal wrote: | They use chip budding on those multiple grafting when the rootstock is still small. Unlike citruses, the multiple chip budding on a single trunk will readily sprout with pome type fruit trees. |
I found this link when searching for chip budding. I thought I'd share since it reminds me of Joe's tutorials.
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fig/msg0920401730111.html
Phillip |
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JoeReal Site Admin
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 4726 Location: Davis, California
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Posted: Wed 20 Feb, 2008 11:33 pm |
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That's a great pictorial demo from FigNut. Thanks for the posting.
My only comment to improve Fignut's method is that to first detach the leaf from the donor bud by cutting the leaf petiole midway. This would still leave you a handle to comfortably hold the donor bud, but the major advantage is that it would minimize moisture loss on the bud. Imagine a whole leaf losing water vapor especially if the air is dry, which often is, the tiny bud attached to a transpiring leaf would be dessicated easily. I suspect that the operation was done in the morning when relative humidity is a lot higher, or just after the rains, and the operation took a very short time and so the bud survived. But to be safe, I strongly recommend to cut off the leaf attached to the bud even before removing the donor bud. You wanted your donor bud to be as succulent as possible to enhance survival. |
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6656 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Fri 22 Feb, 2008 1:07 am |
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Today, I was spraying some of my Clementine trees with a 10-PPM Gibberellic acid spray to "pollinate" the blooms. Afterwards I looked through the entire 26 pages of the gibberellic label and noticed that there is not one single registered use on apples, not one! I was surprised. While reading the label, I also noticed another interesting item, which really did not surprise me all that much. It had to do with none other than one particular statet--- CALIFORNIA. Gibberellic acid is registered for use in every state of the union and most countries of the world for uses on Blueberries, Red Tart Cherries, Italian Prunes, Non Bearing Stone Fruit, Strawberries, Cranberries, Cucumbers, Melons, Peppers and Spinach but cannot be use in----- California. Does the voters in California need to take a look at the regulators they send to office ??????- Millet |
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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Posted: Fri 22 Feb, 2008 3:30 am |
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Millet wrote: | Today, I was spraying some of my Clementine trees with a 10-PPM Gibberellic acid spray to "pollinate" the blooms. Afterwards I looked through the entire 26 pages of the gibberellic label and noticed that there is not one single registered use on apples, not one! I was surprised. While reading the label, I also noticed another interesting item, which really did not surprise me all that much. It had to do with none other than one particular state ---- CALIFORNIA. Gibberellic acid is registered for use in every state of the union and most countries of the world for uses on Blueberries, Red Tart Cherries, Italian Prunes, Non Bearing Stone Fruit, Strawberries, Cranberries, Cucumbers, Melons, Peppers and Spinach but cannot be use in the land of (how does it go)--------- California. Does the voters in California need to take a look at the regulators they send to office ?????? - Millet |
Hee hee hee . . . the California Green Peace Green Berets haven't found my bottle of Gibberellic Acid. I had it stuffed in a spare tire smuggled hundreds of miles through unfriendly territory to be abused by my Tangelo tree. They can come and get it when they pry the GA3 and my firearms out of my cold dead hands (Hey, I was at the convention in Kansas City in 2000 when Charlton Heston gave his "cold dead hands" speech. I can still hear the crowd roar).
Phillip |
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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Posted: Fri 22 Feb, 2008 3:42 am |
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Millet wrote: | Does the voters in California need to take a look at the regulators they send to office ?????? |
Tell me about it. You have no idea how insane things have gotten here. The sad commentary is that most people aren't smart enough to know or care what's going on. I'm living in the Planet of the Apes and the apes are calling the shots.
Phillip |
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Skeeter Moderator
Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 2218 Location: Pensacola, FL zone 9
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Posted: Sat 23 Feb, 2008 12:46 am |
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BTW -- I bought some more Pink Lady apples at the store the other day-- It reaffirmed my opinion of Fuji apples as number 1 in my book. The Pink Ladys are getting a little soft --maybe since it is 4-5 months past prime picking time-- I never get that from Fujis no matter what time of yr I get them. Some of the Pink Ladys are still pretty firm, and they are all still much better than the average apple this time of yr--especially RDs. _________________ Skeet
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JoeReal Site Admin
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 4726 Location: Davis, California
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Posted: Sat 23 Feb, 2008 1:23 am |
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Perhaps I got the genuine Pink Lady apples and/or a fake Fuji Apples growing in my yard.
One has to remember that the Pink Lady apples are better planted where there is prolonged heat like in the inland valley where I am located, and not in the California foothills where most of the best apples are grown. |
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