Thanks Joe. That is still affordable.
I maybe asking you a lot of questions.
1. Who drew your plan?
2. I forgot to include the internet wirings. Is yours hooked up to hi-speed DSL?
3. You should have asked me to wire the whole addition so you can save some more but it is too late now. I've doing that as my rather my beer money. I have a license you know.
4. How did you get a contractor?
I am thinking to contract let's say the foundation then get another for the rough and another for the finishing. How did you do yours?

From other people of Davis, we got a good deal. A two room addition that totals 312 sq ft usually cost anywhere from $80K to $120K. So basically we got a good deal from our contractor.

I watched closely the progress of the project and here's what I found out:
Our main contractor has subcontracted most of the work. He basically went around and got three bid quotations. He got low bids from fellow contractors because he is a licensed contractor. If you buy materials from various stores, you get steep discounts. So what amounted to are the following:
Foundation slab subcontracted $2,500
Framing for two rooms subcontracted: $3,000
Roofing subcontracted, including tile purchase: $4,000
Stucco: $1,500
Interior shearing wall (required by new earthquake regs) and dry wall: $1,250

Those are the major stuff and they are really very cheap. And I could have done the rest easily, including subcontracting to architects and it would have cost me a total of only $24,000 plus a lot of time.

Our contractor did the following:
Scheduling of activities and labor
Design of the rooms together with our inputs and have it meet city's requirements and approval.
Load calulations from licensed engineers.
Gutters.
Painting.
Wiring and Electricity.
Hauling and cleaning up.
Windows and doors (they are basically a window company)


Now looking back at how often they were delayed because of some modifications required by the city, and the other redoing of job that did not meet the city inspector's approval, plus the wasting of a lot of laborer's time due to non-arrival of materials, I don't think they really earned a big profit on this project. But potentially they could earn big had the management been efficient.

I make project management software when I used to work at Intel as a subcontractor programmer helping the contractors manage their projects. In most cases, the total cost of project is 70% labor and 30% materials. But if you don't have materials delivered on time, you will still have to spend the 70%, so material management would be the major focus because labor depended on the materials. Top management would go directly to be good and efficient at managing labor, which I believe is top notch, but if you don't have the materials on hand your laborers will just be pounding nails for the show but the project isn't really moving.

This is the exact case that is happening here with our contactor, and have not told him that, perhaps only when the project is over I will give him tips if he will not be offended.

So Benny, I think you should hire a good architect for your designs and have that approve by the city, then subcontract the foundations, the frame, and the roof. The rest you can do easily in your own sweet time, and make sure you have the materials ready. Perhaps hire a daily laborer $10/hr to help you when you get to major activities and be sure to have materials that you need when that laborer is working. This way, I think for the same size room and quality, your total costs not counting your labor should be under $25K.

Joe:
That's an unbelievable price for the pictures I've been seeing. BTW I've been saving all the pictures that you upload in one file so when I'm ready I have a very good idea what I'll do. With modifications of course. I would like to have more and bigger glass bay window on the South-East side for my plants during the winter time. The addition is not going to be a bedroom- rather an extension of the living room and part a playroom. But I think half of it will be going to be a green house.
But you know, I have all the time in the world now that I am retired. Just like Millet. I don't know what he is doing now. Maybe touring around the world a couple of times now probably.
And thanks for the info. That's very important to me.
PS: I just talked to my wife this morning 6/2/06 and she seemed to be interested. I told her I'd show the pictures you upload when she comes back from work.

Just let me know when you are going to start your room and greenhouse addition project. Too bad I can't have a Bay Window, it would have been prettier.

It's not going to be right away. I still have 2 bathrooms to finish a kitchen to finish and one bedroom to change the carpet to a hard floor. I have all the materials . Just installing them. I am debating hiring or do it myself.
My front is finished. I end up hiring a contractor and I furnished the materials. I did not know it was a hard work and a big job at that. I thought my 3 kids and I could do it but it was done anyway. You know changed my front from grass to pavers.

Joe, I can't believe they won't let you have a bay window..esp. that your addition is not facing front!
Benny, I'm excited for you --finally starting your addition ...greenhouse/living space. Like a friend told me, "what ever size you decide on, make it bigger or you'll be sorry later". And, he was right. I was going to make my sun room 12X16 but after thinking, I made it 16 1/2X 18'. Now I only wish my deck (10x16) was bigger LOL.
Just draw pics, think, & do lots of measuring. I drew my plans on graph paper..each square = 1 sq ft. They wanted front, sides and overal views to scale. Hope you have a nice high ceiling with maybe skylites & celing fan! My biggest window (south facing) is 6'wide X 5' high and non-operable: just glass, but 2 next to it can open. It took me and one other person to put it and all windows in. If it was any bigger woulda taken more ppl. Ooh, it's so fun to start a project & get it going!
Joe is soo right about having things well planned!
Don't forget what kind of floor you will have for the greenhouse part..something that can take water run-off from plants. Maybe even a drain -- self leveling concrete? So many things! Sorry if I'm ratteling here.

Patty:
Thank you so much for your much needed advice.
The reason why I am hesitant to start is by making mistakes because it will be disastrous if not very expensive to amend the mistakes so your advice are very important. So please go on.
I am saving all of your advice and Joe's in one file so when I start I'd be ready. Specially when you said "make it bigger" than what you start planning.

Benny, start drawing plans. Draw what comes up off the top of your head then put it away. Look at it later & guaranteed, you'll think of something better -- some changes. Keep doing this till you got it right. Then, make appointment to permit desk & see what they say & what changes you have to make - if any, & go on from there. I drew my plans & went for appt. & he gave me pointers on code req2uirements. I changed my plans - including floor plan & joists, about 4-5 times till I got it down to what I wanted.
Know what to hire out for & what you can do yourself. Joe is right... pay someone $10.00 an hour for labor to help. I got a friend/carpenter to help with rafters (that takes more than 2 people) & he brought 2 friends along to help for one day. He said $100.00 for each would be fair. All 3 did this work before & usually charged more for side jobs. I thought it was a lot but still cheaper than if I contracted. That was the only labor I paid for - other than delivery of most materials (lumber & windows).

Thanks a lot Patty. Your advice is not in any book and can only be gained through actual experience.
Thanks for helping me.
Benny

Completed the installation wiring and testing of Amana Heat Pump unit, functions as aircon or heater.

Next major job would be to install bamboo "hardwood" flooring. This will be a real challenge, as I have to install these diagonally. Bamboo flooring costs about $5.99 per sq ft last year, but I got a good deal from Lumber Liquidators http://www.lumberliquidators.com near our area, and I got these for $1.99 per sq ft.

Bencelest,
If you want to put your ideas to computer that can be saved and given to an Architect here is a free program you can down load..
http://www.tucows.com/preview/395682
I have used Intellicad and AutoCAD for 8 yrs now. This program is based on Intellicad..
I guess I have the last free intellicad program *I use the program for volunteer community stuff (fire dept sure loves the free work) and my own personal use* when they put out 2000 it was free if you did not use it for business purposes. I went to their web site to get the link for you there but the www.cadopia.com web site had a limit to the length of time to "try" the product.. and I think it wouldn't even be enough time to learn the basics..
I know Intellicad works well with AutoCAD because if I want anything printed of large size I would have to take it to a computer that had AutoCAD to use the printer..
As it is Intellicad is only $250 for the basic product a great savings from AutoCADs cheapest $600..
Any way.. the above link being freeware and that you could save to a format autoCAD can read.. worse that happens is ya get a head ache from trying to figure it out.. LOL and if you know all the local codes ETC you might be able to get good enough at it to do it ALL yourself and save Architect fee..
Just an idea.. Sorry if I rattled OT too much..
Gina *BabyBlue*