Joe, When you begin adding multiple varieties onto your persimmon tree where you already have other varieties, how much of the tree do you prevent from budding until the new scion takes-- just the limb where you added the new variety or do you suppress growth on even more of the tree?

I need to move the Izu to the top part of the tree where all of the growth is.

BTW--if you have other varieties you are willing to share (I have Jiro and Izu), I will be glad to pay shipping. I also have apples (Fuji and Granny Smith) and will have a peach soon.

I would graft unto the most vigorous limb and would only remove sprouts below that grafted limb. It helps if you graft a lot of them at the same time, it will insure better growth on all grafted scionwood.

I can send you Matsumoto Wase Fuyu (earlier harvest by about a month), Giant Fuyu (not good tasting though from my yard, but mileage could vary), Hana Gosho (currently have big sticks only), and others I may come across at the exchange. Tell me how many limbs are available for grafting and the sizes of the limbs and I will estimate the sizes to take and send them to you.

Does it hurt to cut limbs that will recieve grafts now--if not I could send you 2-3 Jiro scions for the exchange.

Don't cut them now. It might induce the persimmon to self prune that branch. I have done it and sometimes it happens.

Don't send me any persimmon scionwood, that's okay. I may have more cultivars than anybody in California except the germplasm, but most are just small limbs in an experimental multi-grafted tree that we could not get scionwood from.

Thanks Joe--That is why I asked!

Does the bark graft not work well with small scions in persimmons? I know last yr you reccomended the whip graft for the Izu on the small branch. I have been getting good results with small wood on citrus bark grafts. I only have a few small limbs of apple, but will try bark grafting them on some crab apple trees of my brother's in GA. May put a Fuji on my Granny Smith just for a spare. Any special tricks for apple?

Skeet, yes sometimes the bark grafting of a tiny scion wood work wonders even with persimmons. But these are influenced by the vigor of the host branch or stock and the interaction with the scionwood. The Izu I observed is a lousy performer on Fuyu branches. I bark grafted it (using the tiny tip wood of Izu source) unto a vigorous branch of Coffee Cake, it took off and suddenly occupied about 15% of the canopy, but remember I have 43 cultivars on this tree. I will be grafting over a lot of its branches next year. This year, I will evaluate the unseen fruits, counting the chicks before the eggs hatch. I got to eat my cake too!

It is the same with apples, and in fact most fruit trees. Sometimes those tiny grafts will simply take off, or they would remain runt. I could not pinpoint the causes. If they remain stunted, I'll simply pick up scionwood from the exchange and graft unto the newer vigorous branches.

But in case where there is noticeable vigor or lack of, I note down those interactions.

Do you have notes about Izu on Jiro? Which do you think is more important-- vigor of stock branch or interaction between scions or does that vary too much to make the point useful.

The Izu on Jiro is better than Izu on fuyu, but the Izu on coffee cake seems to be the best. Sharon on Jiro is very vigorous too.

One thing I have observed that stood beyond the rest is that grafting unto Coffee Cake imparts vigor and early fruit bearing of the grafted branch. In fact, I have about half of the grafted branches on Coffee Cake bloomed and produced high quality fruits the year they were grafted. In those cases I allowed fruit production if the resulting grafts are very vigorous.

Hokkaido on anything is not always vigorous, but then again Hokkaido has a low vigor, and amongst the various persimmon single grafts on a tree, it is always the smallest.

I checked the persimmon tree for potential grafting sites. The Jiro graft has about 5 potential graft sites that would be approximately 1/2 inch in diameter. The 2 sprouts that grew from the Izu scion are both about 6 inches long and less than 1/4 inch in diameter.

I've got:

Suruga: Large fruit. Skin orange-red. Flesh dense, very sweet, excellent quality. Difficult to soften on tree (fruit becomes spongy rather than soft). Ripens in November, keeps well Tree almost free from alternate bearing. Recommended for warmer climates, ie, Florida

Hana Gosho

Giant Fuyu

Matsumoto Wase (sport of Fuyu, ripens a month earlier)

Real Fuyu - while there are many Fuyu sold all over the USA, most are not the real deal. I have personal cuttings grown and given by Dave Ulmer, a true persimmon afficionado (met and chatted with him at the exchange). This Fuyu is the original Fuyu from Japan and was obtained from the USDA germplasm. This real Fuyu will not be compatible on D. lotus rootstock. Many nursery that sells Fuyu are on D. lotus rootstock and are not the real Fuyu as it is not compatible.


I'll be grafting over many cultivars with the one from Dave Ulmer. He is one cool guy, Chief of Sebastopol CRFG. He is very careful in all of his labeling. So I will redo all the other known cultivars that he has donated in the exchange. Most likely, the other sources have a high chance of being mislabeled.

Thanks Joe, Since I will have 3 sites for new varieties (using 1 for Izu and leaving one main limb of Jiro), I would like to get Suruga, Hana Gosho and either Real Fuyu or Matsumoto Wase --provided they are all compatible with Jiro.

I also have a couple sites on my apples for anything you would like to add (I have Fuji and Granny Smith).

I will be getting a peach this spring, but don't know for sure what variety yet, but for certain will eventually contain La Felicianas.

I used to have a dozen or so varieties, but am down to 4, saijo, giombo, and ichi jiro. hana fuyu. If you plant chocolate, expect all your fruit to be full of seeds. I had a small branch and got thousands of seeds until I cut the branch off. The hana fuyu goes if it doesn't bear this year. The ichi on the same tree fruited the first year and I've been waiting 4 years for the hana fuyu.

Skeet, I'll make sure to include something for your apples, perhaps low chill types.

Skeet,

Please PM me your mailing address so that I can ship the budwoods.

Joe