Citrus Growers Forum

JoeReal · Posted: Wed 11 Jun, 2008 9:10 pm

Come to think of it, the time when gas are sold pennies to the gallon, and they came up well, almost a hundred years before their time.

Thomas Edison with 1914 Electric Car
PHOTO CAPTION: Thomas Edison inspects electric car in 1914. He and Henry Ford had planned to use Edison's nickel iron battery to power clean, efficient, affordable cars for the masses that would be recharged by home wind turbines, according to author Edwin Black in 'Internal Combustion'.

from: http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1212

Laaz · Posted: Wed 11 Jun, 2008 11:45 pm

You know this whole gas inflation is BS... We have have had autos for over a hundred years now. Gas never rose above $1 a gallon from the beginning through 2001. From 2001 - 2008 gas has risen from .97 a gal to over $4 a gal... This whole ordeal is driven by nothing but greed... I'm glad I fill my tank every two months or so. I drive my company vehicle to & from work & pick up most of what I need on the way home or over the course of the day.

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Wal-Mart a great place to buy cheap plastic crap ! http://walmartwatch.com/ ...

JoeReal · Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 1:26 am

I'm with you Laaz!

Here's one of the sentiments from another forum:

Quote:

Guy Incognito

Ole Slorer & Eugen Weinberg should be shot.
First it was Morgan Stanley analyst Ole Slorer who ran his mouth off & helped push oil to almost $140/bbl.

Now Commerzbank senior commodity analyst Eugen Weinberg told journalists in Frankfurt that the price of oil could peak at $150-170 in the next three months.

Do these a**holes realize that with the oil market being as volatile as it is right now, any kind of rumor or loose talk can cause a spike in prices?

I know its an anal-ists job to predict, but with the way things are now they should be told to just shut the hell up.

I can't help but get the feeling they're doing it on purpose.
Please forgive me if I come off as a wingnut conspiracy theorist; these so-called analysts can make commodities investors a ton of money just by saying something like this.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080611/oil_commerzbank.html?.v=2

Joe's conclusion: It's going to happen!!!

Skeeter · Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 12:15 pm

I think it is their way of conspiring with other speculators, so they can all target the same price before dumping their supplies on the market!

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Skeet

Millet · Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 2:06 pm

IT IS NOT speculators, it is not Mr. Slorer, and it is not Mr. Weinberg to blame, they have LITTLE to do with the price of oil. As far as speculators, please tell me, when did profit become a SIN in America? There are speculators in wheat, corn, beans, minerals, land, real estate, intertainment, and on and on and on and on. The people to blame on the high price of oil in the United States are the American people---US. WE are the people who put the Democratic majority in Congress and the Senate, and it is the Democratic majority that refuses to dill in ANWR, it is the Democratic majority, that refuses to drill off the west coast of the United States, it is the Democratic majority the refuses to drill off the East coast of the United States, it is the Democratic majority that refuses drilling in general in United States, it is the Democratic majority that makes refining impossible. What do they do, try to pass a win fall profit tax (GIVE ME A BREAK). Win fall taxes will not put one ounce of gas in our tanks, but it will take a lot of the profit out of oil, and the American people who have stock in the oil companies, and give the money to the government. We are the people who elected these 'representatives", and we are the people who have become CRY BABIES AND WHINERS about the high price of oil. We send the President over to Saudi Arabia to BEG them to increase their production when we REFUSE TO DRILL OUR OWN RESERVES -- HOW SAD. It is time to stop crying, and it is now time to pay for our actions. The Saud's own their oil and they have every right to charge what they want for THEIR OIL, and distribute the amount that they want of THEIR OIL. The party to blame is WE THE PEOPLE. - Millet (Thank God for American Big Oil - it is time to stop interfering in their business)

JoeReal · Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 2:32 pm

The tipping point of gas prices in Europe was $3/gallon, and they started by designing small cars long before the US did, when they hit $3/gallon.

In the US, we just found out that the tipping point of gas is $4/gallon to cause all this uproar, and leaving lots of unsold SUV and big guzzlers in the dealer lots.

Today, it is considered an upgrade going from SUV to a Prius. And the waiting list is long.

It is interesting to note that our Department of Energy, and the big US car makers have concluded that prices of gasoline will no longer go below $4/gallon, and they are drastically changing or retooling their manufacturing plants. The confluence of factors and reaching the tipping point of the price of gas, our car industry have changed forever, in just a matter of eight weeks, and we have witnessed it all.

I don't have the time to assign the blame, but am very glad that multiple solutions to this irreversible oil crisis is being furiously worked upon. The revolution in car batteries such as cheaper cost of production, higher energy density, increased safety, quick charging, and extremely long charging cycles have made it possible to develop Electric Cars right now.

GM is producing the Volt which will be due in 2010. Aptera Motors will be starting to deliver Electric mode vehicles by the end of this year. And if you want fancy raw power, we have those electric too. I was wondering why Ford Motors haven't participated in the development of their own brand of electric cars, when they can rightfully claim that they were the first in History.

Most ranges of the new battery packs are designed to meet anywhere from 50% to 98% of daily commuting needs, and the electric power grid is able to supply 84% capacity if we changed all cars overnight into electric.

And if you don't want to get stranded in the middle of nowhere because you ran out of electrons, the Volt and Aptera both have the REEV that have ICE running on optimal RPM to recharge those batteries while in transit, giving you 50-60 mpg for the Volt, and 235-300 mpg for the Aptera.

There are still EEStor ultracapacitors that could be the next revolution after the Battery type Electric Vehicles, and they could be recharged in seconds instead of 5 minutes compared to the best A123 batteries right now.

History is being made right before my eyes!

Thanks to have you back Millet! You were gone for a long time. Was worried there about you.

JoeReal · Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 3:59 pm

Millet wrote:

I for one hate driving mini cars, let Europe run around in toy cars. I like to drive a real automobile. - Millet

We've got that covered too, especially for you.
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html

Johnathan Goodwin can get 100 mpg out of a Lincoln Continental, cut emissions by 80%, and double the horsepower. Does the car business have the guts to follow him?
Check it out. It's actually a jet engine," says Johnathan Goodwin, with a low whistle. "This thing is gonna be even cooler than I thought." We're hunched on the floor of Goodwin's gleaming workshop in Wichita, Kansas, surrounded by the shards of a wooden packing crate. Inside the wreckage sits his latest toy--a 1985-issue turbine engine originally designed for the military. It can spin at a blistering 60,000 rpm and burn almost any fuel. And Goodwin has some startling plans for this esoteric piece of hardware: He's going to use it to create the most fuel-efficient Hummer in history.

Goodwin, a 37-year-old who looks like Kevin Costner with better hair, is a professional car hacker. The spic-and-span shop is filled with eight monstrous trucks and cars--Hummers, Yukon XLs, Jeeps--in various states of undress. His four tattooed, twentysomething grease monkeys crawl all over them with wrenches and welding torches.

Goodwin leads me over to a red 2005 H3 Hummer that's up on jacks, its mechanicals removed. He aims to use the turbine to turn the Hummer into a tricked-out electric hybrid. Like most hybrids, it'll have two engines, including an electric motor. But in this case, the second will be the turbine, Goodwin's secret ingredient. Whenever the truck's juice runs low, the turbine will roar into action for a few seconds, powering a generator with such gusto that it'll recharge a set of "supercapacitor" batteries in seconds. This means the H3's electric motor will be able to perform awesome feats of acceleration and power over and over again, like a Prius on steroids. What's more, the turbine will burn biodiesel, a renewable fuel with much lower emissions than normal diesel; a hydrogen-injection system will then cut those low emissions in half. And when it's time to fill the tank, he'll be able to just pull up to the back of a diner and dump in its excess french-fry grease--as he does with his many other Hummers. Oh, yeah, he adds, the horsepower will double--from 300 to 600.

"Conservatively," Goodwin muses, scratching his chin, "it'll get 60 miles to the gallon. With 2,000 foot-pounds of torque. You'll be able to smoke the tires. And it's going to be superefficient."

He laughs. "Think about it: a 5,000-pound vehicle that gets 60 miles to the gallon and does zero to 60 in five seconds!"

bastrees · Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 4:00 pm

Let's just hope this is a "teachable moment" and we don't all go back to our old ways when and if the yo-yo goes back down the string. I can see supplies loosening at the whim (and amusement) of OPEC, speculators cashing out and moving on to the next commodity, and prices trending down, and then what will we do? Will we stop complaining at $3.25/gallon? Will we wait until $2.99/gallon? And then will we again put ourselves in the exact same situation we are in now because there is no follow-through? The politicians that we hired will be very happy to follow our lead and put the issue on the back burner. The R&D for the technology that is currently finding a market will be set aside because the market opportunities will dwindle, and where will we be? We will find ourselves once again the play toy of the middle east. Let's just hope this is a "teachable moment"...Barbara

Millet · Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 4:02 pm

I for one do not like driving mini cars. I haven't work all my life to be stuck in an UGLY Prius- Millet

JoeReal · Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 4:03 pm

Unless of course, you just want to burn gas and give more money to oil industry ...

I cannot help you with that and I won't stop you from doing that.

Millet · Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 4:06 pm

The oil industry is America's friiend, NOT our enemy. If the government would mind their own business and stay out of oil, we would not be paying $4.00 per gallon. - Millet

Sylvain · Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 5:09 pm

Joe, I agree with you, not with Millet but you made a mistake when you said "they switched to small cars a long time ago".
We never had big cars because most of our town are from middle age and the streets are narrow. You couldn't go in center town with a big car.
Now there are few people that use 4 wheels drives that use much gas.
We have a name for those people and Americans that like big cars. It is "m'as-tu-vu?" ( "didyouseeme?").
Nice and clear, isn't it?

Millet · Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 5:23 pm

Sylvain, your word is CRYSTAL clear but most certainly it is far from being nice. - Millet

Sylvain · Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 5:55 pm

sorry, I meant "clever", "smart".
Don't take it badly. I said it because I thought you would find the French saying funny.

Millet · Posted: Thu 12 Jun, 2008 6:03 pm

Only 8 percent of the world's oil production is private, the rest is government controled. See what a mess government control has caused? - Millet