I have a Calamondin and a Kafir lime grown indoors in pots. The Cal is about 3 years old and 1 1/2 ft tall and in a clay pot. It has fruited once. It has lost all its leaves and the branches/stems are brown and dried (dead) . The Kafir is in a ceramic pot. It is 2 years old and 1 foot tall. It keeps droping leaves and the stems would die one at a time and new stems would grow. Right it has 1 green and one dead sten and about 5 leaves. They both are at an East facing window. I cannot put them outside because the temperature is minus 20 degrees Celcius. What can I do to revive the Cal (if it is not dead) and prevent the Kafir from dying. I would appreciate advice on the following:

1. How, when and how much to water.

2. When and how much to fertilizer. I use both Miracle gro and fish emulsion.

3. And any other advice that anyone thinks I may need.

Thank you.

Sengyan

more needs to be known about other current living conditions. such as how warm the trees are kept lighting.. You may find the answers you need in the thread about "Container Citrus winter growing guidelines"
Also need to know what condition the leaves are when they drop.. i.e., yellow leaving petiole on the branch..
As your trees are not of good health warming the soil, if it measures low, may help though not for sure the cure. water ONLY when the top few inches of soil are almost dried.. Make sure the soil is well draining.. Hold OFF on any fert till the plants show signs of new growth..
another thing that might help is boosting the humidity in the air..

If you could post pics of your trees that would help IDing problem..

If you have a 3 year old Calamondin tree and it is only 1-1/2 ft. tall, and if you have a 2-year old Kafir and it is only 1-ft. tall, you must have a problem in your growth medium. Both trees should be considerable taller after growing that length of time. The problem surely is in the growth medium and has been for a long time. My guess, on the very little information that you give, is the medium has long ago degraded and compacted, and the gaseous exchange is low, or almost non existent. This means the oxygen content of the "soil" is very low and the CO2 content then is probably high. This condition also, leads to a high soluble salt content, and a high soil water content. Have you ever flushed these containers? Lastly Gina, is correct in stating that your thread gives very little information. - Millet

Thank you both for your replies. As stated in my post they are at an East window and they get at least 6 hours of sunlight when there is sun and the house temp. is at least 70 F . The fallen leaves are green. The growing mediun is 50/50 mushroom compost and garden soil and it is loose and not compacted. I check with a moisture meter before I water. I am sure there are other pieces of information that are needed in order to advise me but I don't know what other information to list.
Maybe more specific questions will help me to provide more information.

Sengyan

First of all 50 percent mushroom compost and 50 percent real/actual soil from the garden is a medium that I would never use. A long standing rule in container culture is never add actual soil. Repeated watering that is required for containerized trees and plants causes soil to filter to the bottom of the container. I still say your tree's problem is the growth medium. - Millet

Millet

Thank you for your reply. Would you be kind enough to advise on the following:

1 Medium to use for indoor citrus plants in pots.
2. Type of fertilizer to use, frequency of use, etc.
3. Watering: how , when, how much.
4. Pruning: or not.

Thank you.

Sengyan

When you ask me what type of growth medium I would recommend, everyone on this forum knows what I am going to recommend. However, I will recommend two types of growth mediums.

Mix #1) This is the one I use.
4-parts CHC (pretreated)
1-part coarse peat moss
Osmocote slow release fertilizer 17-23% N (252-grams/cu.ft.)
Dolomite (84 grams/cu.ft.)
STEM (Soluble Trace Mineral Mix) 25-grams/cu.ft.)

Mix #2) Good general use growth mix.
3-parts conifer bark
1-part peat moss
1-part coarse sand (not play sand, but perhaps builders sand)
Osmocote slow release fertilizer 17-23%N (252-grams/cu.ft.)
Dolomite (84 grams/cu.ft.)
STEM (25 grams/cu.ft.)

Pruning a container tree - NO
Water - When the top two or three inches are dry.

Sengyan, I think you will find this post extremely useful: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/527353/

Don't get particularly caught up in the recipes in the post. The author prefers pine bark, Millet prefers coconut husk chips, others will use Turface, perlite, turkey grit or whatever. There are many ways to skin a cat! But the principles the author Tapla sets forth for growing healthy container plants are dead on.

After reading Al's very long post, I had some thoughts. I was surprised to find that in every respect, it is almost word for word (including the words adhesion, cohesion, perched water table, oxygen, drainage, aeration, bottom drainage layer, microorganism, etc.) of the talk I gave at the 2006 Citrus Expo. Al talked down peat moss and using small particles, and then in his growth medium formulations he recommends pine bark FINES, and peatmoss. I don't like using perlite in containers for long term plants such as citrus trees. First perlite is very messy, and second perlite tends to float to the surface of the container with time. I do agree with Al that the three MOST IMPORTANT ingredients in a container are 1). Oxygen, 2). Oxygen and 3). Oxygen. Besides the first three important ingredients, the forth most important ingredient is Oxygen. - Millet

I have used Orchid Mix, but the big chunks of "rock" were usually a bit too big particle size. a few plants didnt appreciate being transplanted into something that not-water-retentive.

When I added some potting soil, plants did better in it, but i had the compaction over time problem again.

CHCs are, IMHO, worth the investment. and they should last several years.

We use to grow a lot of house plants--small to large including trees over 6 ft-- in a hydroponic system using light weight concrete aggregrate-- about 1/2 in in diameter. It included a small pipe with a small float indicator used to indicate the presence of liquid at the bottom. The idea was to maintain a thin layer of water (<1 in). The rocks are porous and will wick water into the root zone. All plants did well in the system and the only problem was fouling of the indicator float due to accumulation of "crud"--this could be checked by making sure that the float was responsive and moved freely.

Skeet

We use the fine grade Orchid bark, which ours is ground Fir,
along with non ground Perlite which has the size and consistency
of sponge rock as components in our potting soil for both indoor
and outdoor container plants of all kinds, Citrus being one of
them.

Our number one concern no matter what soil mixes we make
or buy is to guard against compaction. With compaction we
get no air movement and with no air movement we restrict
root growth and continued compaction can lead to either dry
or wet root rots or in some plants a collar rot to come about.
No matter how we look at it, compaction of our soil is our
number one nemesis of our indoor plants and outdoor plants
both grown in containers and grown in the ground.

I try not to use too much Peat Moss in our mixes. We've seen
evidence of it compacting on us. The whole purpose of the fine
grade Orchid bark that we use is so that we force air pockets in
the soil medium so that as long as the bark does not break down
on us soon we can guarantee some air movement in the soil, no
matter how we water our plants, either from over head watering
or from super saturation. Yes, ground Perlite can work itself up
to the surface of the soil but even for us the sponge rock consistency
does not allow the material to float on top of the water too often.
Even when we take a plant out of the can and look at the roots we
can still see evidence of the sponge rock in areas where the roots
are located, so not that much of it has moved itself upwards to the
surface. The sponge rock once super saturated acts much like a
sponge which is how it got its name, in that when wet it will absorb
water and when drying out it will release water all on its own. When
the sponge rock has released its water content, it will allow air to
stick to the surface of it, thus enabling a means for air to stay or
work itself down into the root zone, find a spot to stick to and stay
there. Air cannot penetrate compacted ground Peat Moss, cannot
go through it to get on the back sides of the series of coalesced
particles. If we want to use a Peat Moss type in our mixes for
indoor container plants we are better off using a non ground form
of Sphagnum Moss instead which if we think about it just gave
the CHC all the validation it needs why we should be using some
of it or mainly it in our indoor potting soil mediums. We want
the medium to hold water but we also want it to disperse water
and when it dries it will in part exchange water for air to stick to
the surface. We get the best of both worlds from using the CHC
in theory and in many cases there will not be a need to use ground
Perlite or sponge rock in our CHC mixes unless we are super
saturating our indoor container plants often.

I think we will learn that Citrus are adaptable to a host of growing
mediums, whether they are acid or alkaline soils, cool or hot and
wet or dry climates. Usually our failures with Citrus that we have
some control over is what we've let happen with the soil in and
around the root zone. If we let the soil compact, we can lose the
plant in time. If we allow air to move in and out of the porous areas
in the root zone through open pockets we have a plant that will live
a long while for us on average and is better able to withstand insect
invasion while we have limited the amount of external disease issues
our plant will have to deal with emanating from below the soil surface.

Jim

Here is our soil medium that we in part made up for the
Citrus last year that we bumped up from five gallons
into fifteen gallon cans. We also used this same mix
for our Japanese Maples, Magnolias and Conifers that
we also put in larger sized containers at the same time
as one of us was working on the Citrus. We have more
Maples than Citrus by the way setting on in moms Snickles
pen, a concrete RV pad, on the North side of her home.

Ingredients: Fine grade Orchid bark, Native soil and
Earthgro® brand potting soil.

Dad took the old Earthgro® brand mix we had on hand
and hand mixed it one part each with the newer coarser
cut Earthgro® brand and made that into a mix that he
placed back in the bags. Then he took out each bag and
mixed in three parts potting soil mix to one part native
soil and mixed them by hand and placed that mix into an
empty bag. Then he mixed six parts potting soil to one
part Orchid bark mix and mixed them by hand and that
became our finished mix. Dad uses three pound coffee
sized cans as his measurer for parts. So in effect one
can Orchid bark was mixed for every six cans amended
potting soil and that is the mix we used and still have
on hand. Dad mixes the potting soil in a large wheelbarrow
and then placed all of the final mix back in the two or
three cubic foot bags and then uses up the bags as he
goes. Time consuming yes but an effective mix that
we are very pleased with for our outdoor container
plants.

Snickles

Iam overwhelm but very happy with all the information. I live in Alberta, Canada and in zone 3b. I noticed that all those who posted are in warm/hot climate. Right now all the garden centers are closed and I'll have to wait till next May before I can get anything. Meanwhile is there anything I can or should do with the 2 plants?

Millet Thank you for the 2 recipes. Could you please explain what the following ingredients are? I have no knowledge of them.

CHC pretreated
STEM
What is ground bark and how fine is it?

Thank you all who posted replies.

Sengyan

Sengyan, it was 1*F when we woke up day before yesterday, not exactly a warm climate!

CHC=coconut husk chips. I order them online. You can get small quantities (bricks) or larger quantities (bales). They need to be pretreated, or rinsed. If you search this forum for CHC + cation exchange, you should find links with the procedure.

The bark I use is the consistency of a fine mulch.

STEM=Soluble Trace Element Mix. You should be able to find this online. Micromax is, in my view, a perfectly suitable alternative, but is next to impossible to find in small quantities.

My apologies if I butted in...