http://www.usu.edu/cpl/PDF/CoconutCoirPaper.pdf

Here is a link to an interesting paper on the use of coir in container mixes. It was posted in the GW container forum.

SB

Robert, thank you for the link. I find it interesting, however, I was amazed that they would mix the growth medium used in a scientific study with a shovel. I am not surprised that the Mexican product would be greatly inferior to the Sri Lanka product. I actually do not know much about Coir, as I always use a 3:1 or 4:1 CHC/peat mixture, depending on the plant being grown. However, I would assume (and I know what they say about assuming) that Coir should be pretreated in the same manner as CHC's are pretreated, to lower the salt content. This pretreatment has two parts, rinsing and then cationic exchange with calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate. In studies 2 & 3 no calcium was added because it was said that the pH lever was already in the optimum range, however, earlier it was said that ALL COIR has extremely high K and low calcium and it is CRITICAL to add a source of calcium to improve calcium uptake. They could have added calcium sulfate as a source of calcium, because calcium sulfate would not have changed the pH in treatments 2 and 3. Seems strange that trace minerals were not included in the growth medium used. Anyway, I need to study the paper further. It might be good that I use peatmoss. The formula I have presently have settled on PER ONE CUBIC METER of growth medium is - 3 or 4 parts pretreated CHC (50% 1/4" & 50% 1/2"), 1 part peat moss, 15 pounds Osmocote 17-7-12, 1-1/2 pounds Micromax Micronutrients, and 0 to 10 pounds of dolomite. The amount of dolomite needed depends on the amount of calcium in the irrigation water. I also found it interesting that this study was done by a Utah university. Again, thank you for the information. I have a large bale (brick) of Coir. I might properly pretreat the Coir and try growing several differend items myself, and see the results first hand. - Millet

What and where do you (millet) get the calcium and magnesium? (i am guessing that the mag. is from epsom salts) but calcium i have no clue.

Pelletized dolomite is a common source of Ca++ and Mg++.

Interesting that the foliar analysis didn't show any differences in the trace elements. I wonder if supplements of trace elements would affect the results...

I also wonder if the phenolic effect that they mention near the beginning extends to CHC...

I find it hard to find dolomite in my area. Where can I procure them please.

Fascinating puzzle! Something about coir causes monocots,
like wheat to be chlorotic and stunted. I wonder if it is a
mineral deficiency or something phytotoxic in the coir.
I hope they find out.

I wonder if Coconut Husk Chips have the same effect on Wheat
and corn. Hmm, I feel a trial coming on.

As I understand it, Magnesium and Calcium ions in water are
used in a soak to displace Sodium and Potassium in the coir.
Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulfate) can supply magnesium ions.
Calcium Nitrate is used a winter fertilizer, because no
bacterial activity is needed to make the Nitrogen available in
cold weather. Maybe a farm supply store will have some.

Gypsum is Calcium Sulfate. It is only slightly soluble but
it could also supply Calcium ions to help displace Sodium
and Potassium in the coir by a soak and rinse.

...

I found some Wheat. Four seeds each in pots of
1) CHC + 1/4 Peat Moss.
2) Pebbles + 1/4 Peat Moss.
3) Patio Plus potting mix.
All pots were being used in a citrus growing trial.
Now I can eat dinner.

I know where i can find gysum and epsom salts so how much should i add per litre of CHC and per litre of Coir. Sorry about having it in litres that is the only measurment that came on the package.

Valenciaguy:

Here is Millet's Mix in grams:
- The formula I have presently have settled on
- PER ONE CUBIC METER of growth medium is -
- 3 or 4 parts pretreated CHC (50% 1/4" & 50% 1/2"),
- 1 part peat moss,
- 15 pounds (6804 grams) Osmocote 17-7-12,
- 1-1/2 pounds (680 grams) Micromax Micronutrients, and
- 0 to 10 pounds (0 - 4500 grams) of dolomite.
- The amount of dolomite needed depends on the amount
- of calcium in the irrigation water.
- - Millet
Since 1 meter^3 is 1000 liters,
for 1 liter use milligrams instead of grams.

What's the diff between calcium sulfate & calcium nitrate?
Sorry if it's a dumb quest.

So if i buy the Mag. Cal. separte in gypsum and epsom salts would i just mix them in half ratio since dolomite is a mix of the two. Also is dolomite sometimes called dolomite lime? Also could someone explain or post a link about catonic extange (do you add the dolomite then? when you are rinceing the CHC)

Valencia, you can search "cation exchange" and get many posts/threads. Here is one: link The cation exchange is part of the rinse and preparation process.

Tomm, nice little experiment you have going, please be sure to post back with results.

Patty:

Both have Calcium in them.
Plants are very "hungry"for Nitrogen and
will use the Nitrate- in Ca(NO3)2 and leave behind
most of the Calcium++ in the soil, increasing the pH.
Plants use a little of both Ca++ and Sulfate-- in CaSO4
and leave the soil pH about the same.

CaSO4 is only slightly soluble in water (2 grams/liter) and
Ca(NO3)2 is very, very soluble in water (>2Kg/liter).

That's probably more than you wanted to know, but
thanks for asking because you made me get out my
student edition of the "Handbook of Chemistry and Physics"
from 1962. It was like visiting with an old friend!

As noted in the Coir paper, the presents of phenolics in Coir seemed to bother some plants more than others. Possibly not bothering some plant at all. In looking at the presence of phenolics in the growth medium and the growth patterns of citrus, I would think that phenolics should not have a detrimental effect on the tree, as citrus are a variety that themselves produce a LOT of phenolic compounds. The citrus leaf, flavedo, albedo, and juice vesicles all contain phenolic compounds that the tree has naturally produced. Listed below are the various phenolic compounds that are manufactured by, and can be found in citrus tree varieties.

eriocitrin (eriodictyol–7–O–rutinoside)
didymin (isosakuranetin–7–O–rutinoside)
hesperidin (hesperetin–7–O–rutinoside)
naringin (naringenin–7–O–neohesperidoside)
naringin–6"–malonate
naringin–4'–glucoside
narirutin (naringenin–7–O–rutinoside)
narirutin–4'–glucoside
neoeriocitrin (eriodictyol–7–O–neohesperidioside)
neohesperidin (hesperetin–7–O–neohesperidioside)
poncirin (isosakuranetin–7–O–neohesperidioside)
diosmin (diosmetin–7–O–rutinoside)
isorhoifolin (apiginin–7–O–rutinoside)
rhoifolin (apiginin–7–O–neohesperidoside)
rutin (quercetin–3–O–rutinoside)

Millet

valenciaguy:

I just looked up dolomite in the WikiPedia
and see that half and half would be about right since it is (CaMg(CO3)2).
If the mineral is heated, calcined, it loses C02 and becomes dolomitic quicklime,
Calcium and Magnesium Oxides, CaO and MgO.

As Millet showed in his Mix formula, you use it to raise pH,
"sweeten" the soil, if you start with an acidic mix and your water
is also acidic. Here in southern California the water is alkaline and
so I used the sulphates, Gypsum and Epsom Salts.

Alright then i think i will use the gypsum and epsom salts because around here i think we have alkaline soil aswell. The reason i asked because i found a store close by that sells dolomite lime but i will just go with the Gyp. and Eps. thanks a lot