Hi!

I like to learn more about: what size containers people are using.

I see myself moving to a better house in about 3-5 years, therefore I don't want to put any citrus tree into the ground.

I bought several 4WindsGrowers citrus trees which are in the standard #5 container (3.4Gallon / 12.9L).

I've heard somewhere (maybe in the citrus archive; I don't remember) that one should not re-pot them in TOO BIG of a container or it will stun/slow their growth. Something like that. It's not recommended. I don't understand this logic. I am a lazy gardener and would like to just re-pot my trees once (until I buy another home). Only then, will the trees go into the ground.

The reason I don't understand the logic above, is that if one was to plant his tree into the ground, wouldn't THE GROUND be consider one BIG container as a whole? Unlimited size container? Trees prefer being in the ground and not a container, so why are people saying don't re-pot in TOO BIG of a container? But pot one up, etc.

Personally, I would like put all my trees in a #15 container and be done with it (until I get my new house). I hate re-potting because I alway lose a lot of my root system (like my mango tree). Man, mango roots are fragile.

Please enlighten me, or advise on a container size I can use for, say, about 3-5 years time. I want my current small trees to be big and beautiful before they go into the ground at my future place.

Regards,

If you pay attention to the soil, you can use any size pot you want... I have quite a few in 15 - 25 gal containers.

Laaz and I have gone around on this subject before. It is not the size of container that a tree can be successfully planted in, but rather how was the tree gradually transplanted from container to container as the tree grew. The biggest mistake is usually made not in the type of pot, but by using too large a pot. People think that they are doing the tree a favor by giving it a lot of room. But if the tree doesn't grow fast enough to use all of the space, trouble can occur. Over sized containers easily become waterlogged, and then the plant suffers from lack of air. The growth medium becomes sour, causing problems to the tree's health. Another common problem with over sized containers, is the build up of soluble salts to toxic levels. The ground is not comparable in any way to a container. The ground is continuous and therefore does not have a perched water table. Every container contains a perched water table in the bottom of the pot, that is always wet. The chances a tree getting into trouble when planted in an over sized container greatly increases. My guess is a tree planted in an over sized container has 7 chances out of 10 of eventually dieing from problems caused by being planted in a container too large for the root system. ESPECCIALLY if the root system has already been deformed by root compaction from an earlier container. Once a root is deformed it is always deformed. - Millet

And I haven't lost a single one

Like I have always contended, Laaz is the one person in a hundred with the magic. Laaz can toss seeds out in the street, go on vacation, and then come home and harvest the fruit. Especially lemons. - Millet

I agree with Laaz and Millet, it is not the size of the pot but soil composition. If it is planted in the correct type of sandy soil (I like dirt my self) the trees will be okay. My lemons are in 10" 5 gallon pots and have been there for years and appear to be happy campers. My apples, peaches and nectarines are all growing in 25 gallon pots out doors all the time and appear to be happy( I cannot grow cherrys in a pot... I have killed so many).

As I can only grow in containers, and although Laaz makes perfect sense, I would agree with Millet. Despite taking great pains to provide a well draining soil mix, I have on several occasions emptied a container to repot only to find the bottom of the pot wet and compacted. I use a container just large enough to hold the root ball and move up gradually to a larger pot. I believe this is especially important to citrus brought inside for the winter. Just my experience.

I don’t really have much to add to this discussion, Millet has once again pretty much summed up the container debate quite nicely. The one thing I would say going back to your original question greenZ, moving a #5 into a #15 is probably going to be okay as long as you are careful not to over water the tree. It is when people try to move a #5 into say a half wine barrel that we see the most problems. Gradually moving citrus trees into larger containers as jackpine describes is certainly the best way to do it.

A good rule of thumb is to figure that every 3-5 years you should change the potting soil on containerized citrus as the organic material in the soil gets broken down and needs to be replaced. At this time you should check for (and remove) any roots that are circling or kinking up on the root ball. You can then move the tree up into a larger pot or return it to the same pot with the new soil.

Millet,is spot on about pot size and the problems of over potting.I have killed heaps of trees from doing that,plus if you live somewhere that gets a lot of rain like Auckland it doesnt help.I find the dwarf citrus roots are slow growing,so it pays to up size one stage at a time.I have tried a lot of mixes but i have found what works for me and my climate. I use terracotta pots with extra 9mm holes drilled for drainage,good quality potting mix with medium bark and pummice,plus i add a fair bit of perlite.
This creates an airy mix,free draining and the roots can breathe through the terracotta and slow release osmocote.The pots are on feet as well.They are all in 25cm pots which is not very big but as soon as i see roots coming through the drain holes,i will pot up.I have 6 trees all looking healthy.The perlite also prevents compaction,which is often a problem with most mixes.Dries out nicely too.Chc just havent worked for me but i have loads of them and i am interested in millets experimentwith pure chcs?I am still keen to use them.
Good luck and thanks for all the advise i have received from this site. cheers

Well,
it's nearly all said before, but I have a few things to add, like maybe the last sprinkles of fresh garlic to a delicious mediterran dinner, well before getting served

In my optionion, it all also depends on the rootstock too. Slow and dwarfing rootstocks seem to develop a rootsystem much slower, than more vigorous rootstocks.
Thus the slow growing stocks won't explorer, discover and capture the new ground much less fast, than the more vigorous rootstocks. And because the old soil is more compacted, the outer soild has a different water holding capacity than the old soil in the rootball, so at the border of old and new ground, the fine root tips get in contact do different water 'levels', and maybe get disturbed....

So that's why often planting in to large containers fail: A roostock which does not discover the new fresh ground fast enough and adapts more slowly, and the problem of different water holding capacities at the border of both soils, which disturb the root tips....

That's my 2 cent's

.........On the bottom of all of my container trees, I put gravel down to increase drainage and then a layer of filter fabric so that the bedding soil doesn't clog the voids of the gravel..............

dauben, putting gravel or broken shards in the bottom of a container is a bad idea. I does not help in drainage, in fact it actually harms the drainage of the container. The reason is because by adding gravel to the bottom of the container you are raising the "perched water table" , and by doing so the tree's root system has a lot less good aerated growth medium to grow into. Look up Perched Water table, as it pertains to container culture, for the complete explanation. There is a relationship between increasing the size of a container when transplanting, and the type of growth medium being used. The better aeration, and drainage, that the medium provides the less the danger of problems. Still, I do not repot into excessively large containers even when using CHC. I always follow the "Four Inch Rule", as prescribed by Dr. Carl Whitcomb of the University of OK, and described in his book "Plant Production In Containers II". - Millet

One added comment to my post above. The author at Dave's Garden says that you can use a "wick" to help remove the perched water. Has anyone tried this and what material do you use as a wick that doesn't decay?

Phillip

When a person waters a container three forces come into play, gravity, cohesion and adhesion. Immediately the force of gravity begins to pull the water down through the container. Cohesion, which is the molecular attraction of water for water, also begins to pull water down. That is, the water already in the lower part of the container has an attraction for the water above it. It is the force of cohesion that causes a drop of water sliding down the window to completely begin to move sideways when it comes near another water drop, causing the two drops to become one. Also, there is the force of adhesion, which is the attraction of the growth medium for the water. This force is what causes the absorption of the water into the potting soil. Adhesion acts against the downward pull of the irrigation water. We now have two forces puling the water down, gravity and cohesion, and one force (adhesion) keeping the water in the container. However, when the water reaches the bottom of the container we lose the force of cohesion. At the bottom we loose the force of cohesion, due to the fact that there is no longer any water below the container to keep attracting and pulling on the water above that is still in the container. The only force still pulling down is gravity, but the gravity is being counter acted by the force of adhesion from the growth medium. Because the force of adhesion, being stronger than the gravitational pull, the water gravitates to the bottom of the container and begins to "pile" up creating what is called the perched water table. Root growth is very poor in the perched water table, due to the area being over saturated, thus also having very low levels of available oxygen. The percentage of dead and decaying roots becomes high in the perched water table. Adding gravel, or other coarse material, to the bottom of the container, only raises the perched water table higher into the container, greatly reducing the amount of soil available to the root system. Lastly, the height, nor the width, of a container makes any difference to the height of the Perched Water table. The perched water table will be the same height in all containers. I doubt a wick would work very well at all if a coarse material like gravel has been placed in the container bottom. Better than using a wick, would be the use of a coarse growth medium. In fact the smaller the container the more coarse the growth medium needs to be. However, no matter the coarseness of the growth medium a perched water table still develops to some extent. - Millet