Citrus Growers Forum

buddinman · Posted: Thu 10 Apr, 2008 9:32 pm

It is my understanding that a seedling needs approximately 8 flushes of growth before fruiting. When budwood is taken from a mature fruiting tree it will normally fruit the second year from budding. When taken from a non fruiting tree it about the same as planting a seed.

Skeeter · Posted: Sun 11 May, 2008 1:09 pm

Still interested in getting Joe's input on this thread.

Joe, in grafting on mature citrus tress, what factors do you think are the most important in affecting subsequent growth of the new variety?

Will a scion from a seedling grow faster if it is grafted to the top of a mature tree? Does location matter at all?

I have had grafts grow as little as 6 inches to as much as 4-5 feet in a yr . Vigor of the variety obviously is part of the difference, but I have seen pretty large differences in the same variety grafted onto the same tree.

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Skeet

JoeReal · Posted: Wed 14 May, 2008 10:11 pm

Skeeter wrote:

Still interested in getting Joe's input on this thread.
Joe, in grafting on mature citrus tress, what factors do you think are the most important in affecting subsequent growth of the new variety?

Compatibility issue is my number 1 factor. If it is poor, there is trouble, it could die even if it initially took.

The next factor is the quality of the scionwood. The source from the tree, the processing, the handling, the shipment and storage. The fresher the scionwood that gets to you, the better. If the scionwood has undergone extreme cycles of heat and cold, it would be really lousy, no matter if you are the best grafter in the world. How the scionwood will handle such extremities during the transit and storage depends on how hardy they are, and are cultivar specific.

The source from the donor tree, here's what I have observed. If the budwood was taken from a vigorous branch of the donor tree, it will continue it's vigorous ways unto the destination tree. If the budwood was taken from a twiggy fruiting branch, it could sprout blooms instead of vegetative growth on the destination tree. If it sprouted vegetatively, it's growth would be lethargic, but sometimes if it is well exposed to sunlight, and the lateral branches have been removed, it could sprout vigorously from its subsequent nodes.

The next factor would be the vigor and quality of the destination branch. If the branch is not vigorous, and so will the budded cultivar. But sometimes, if the location has adequate sunlight, and the budded cultivar came from a vigorous branch, it can revive the destination branch and the budded cultivar become vigorous. So it is an interaction of the vigor of the source and the destination. If you got your scionwood from a vigorous branch and bud unto a vigorous branch, it is the best combo.

Skeeter wrote:

Will a scion from a seedling grow faster if it is grafted to the top of a mature tree? Does location matter at all?

There are other factors, but I will just end it by discussing the effect of location. If vigor of both the source and destination have been factored in, the location will matter most according to sunlight exposure. If the grafted branch is shaded, it will have lousy growth.

Skeeter · Posted: Thu 15 May, 2008 12:37 am

Thanks Joe, that answers a lot of questions for me.

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Skeet

ingen · Joined: 27 Oct 2008 Posts: 12 Location: Russia, Moscow

Skeeter wrote:

Quote:

Will a scion from a seedling grow faster if it is grafted to the top of a mature tree? Does location matter at all?

I don't know 'bout the location influence, but a branch of a seedling grafted to a mature tree really begins to fruit earlier than that seedling on it's own roots. For example I publish a photo, where you can see a Ponderosa lemon (a mature tree) with a pummelo seedling's scion (with a fruit!) grafted to it. (Grafting was made in 2006. The grafted Pummelo branch fruited the same year. But unfortunately it died in a short time after that.)

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Yesterday you told me 'bout blue blue sky
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Ned · Posted: Sun 25 Jan, 2009 7:30 pm

I just read this thread after ingen's post. I have conducted an experiment where the rootstock did not impart much maturity to the scion, a case where I would have thought it might.

Procimequat is very precocious, and normally blooms, and fruits, the same year the seed is planted. If planted in the spring, a procimequat will bloom and bear fruit, before the end of the season. Several years ago, out of curiosity, I budded an immature scion on a procimequat seedling that had attained maturity. The scion (can't remember what it was sitting here) has not flowered at this point, even though it is 2 1/2 or three feet tall and at least 2 years old.

I would not take this to mean that one would get the same result in all circumstances, but Millet does have a good point in that this would be of great value breeding citrus, and that the industry has likely conducted every imaginable experiment seeking to hasten maturity in seedlings. I have never seen anything published to indicate that it works.

I do think that stressing a tree sometimes causes it to bloom earlier than it otherwise would. I am not sure how this would work with citrus, but, if it did, it seems like we would have heard about it.

Ned

Ned · Posted: Sun 25 Jan, 2009 8:37 pm

There is one thing that indicates to me that node count may not be always the the only factor in seedling maturity. I have grown a good many citrus from seed. On rare occasions a seedling will begin blooming a year or two after sprouting. I am not sure what causes this but I believe I have read posts by others that have had the same experience. Anyone else had this happen?