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transplantation into chc /coir mix
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stressbaby
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Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 199
Location: Missouri

Posted: Tue 21 Mar, 2006 11:15 am

Yes, generally white roots are a good sign.
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6657
Location: Colorado

Posted: Tue 21 Mar, 2006 1:27 pm

Patty, it is really difficult to know from sure from a picture, but you roots seem to look fine. Why did you remove all the CHC's from the the roots? I did notice that a lot of your tree's roots had grown into the CHC's, just as Laidback remarked in a thread above, saying his tomato roots had grown into and had attached to the CHC's. I can see where the root ends that had attached to the chips were broken off when you tried to remove the CHC's from the root system. Typically, when citrus trees are planted in CHC's the roots grow into and even through the center of many of the chips. The root system bonds with the coconut chips to become almost one unit. It is impossible to remove the roots from the chips without braking them when up potting to a larger container. The tree must be lifted and the roots along with the CHC's transfered to the larger container as a unit. New growth on citrus roots is white in color. So if a citrus root system has a lot of nice white root ends, then your tree has good root growth. Patty what were you trying to accomplish by removing the chips from the tree's roots? Millet
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bencelest
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
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Location: Salinas, California

Posted: Tue 21 Mar, 2006 3:52 pm

As usual You are the Man! Millet. Thanks for the info.
I am getting ready to transplant my citrus to CHC. I will transplant one first and follow your instruction" if a couple inches of soil is VERY CAREFULLY removed so that the roots will be extending into the CHC's one or two inches when the transplanting is completed, then the transplanted tree makes the adjustment quickly. The important words are "caution", and "carefully" remove the soil".
I just received the nitrates I ordered and epsom salt.
I already rinsed the CHC with epsom salt and the nitrates as last rinse.
I also got me a peat which I will mix with CHC 4:1. And I have the Osmocote 24-8-10 plus the STEM I ordered.
Thanks Millet.
Benny
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Patty_in_wisc
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Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 1842
Location: zone 5 Milwaukee, Wi

Posted: Tue 21 Mar, 2006 4:27 pm

Millet, I did not remove any CHC's from the roots. I posted 2-3 months ago that I repotted all my citrus because there was too much soil - not enough CHC, which defeated the purpose of CHC. Soil stayed too wet- -the ratio was wrong. I ALWAYS am very gentle with roots. Some grew into the chc's --I left them undisturbed...would NEVER remove them. The quat roots didn't grow into any chc. The roots you saw in potting mix just fell off after I GENTLY removed it. They were brittle. I hand picked out those peices of roots & not one was grown into chc. For some reason they just wouldn't grow into them.
My conclusion is, that plant came so rootbound, there was really no soil in the roots. Just a little on outside which fell off. As Benny said:
"I also make sure there is no air space between the medium and the roots by soaoking the pot very heavily with warm water after transplanting so there will be continous sustenance of water to the leaves."
He doesn't use CHC's--YET.
I believe that was my problem --no soil IN the roots and TOO MUCH air space. Roots weren't taking up water---CHC's couldn't get in there.
My common sense now tells me to remove some chc at base/center of plant and gradually add some soil there. A little water will move it down to center of roots so they have something to take up nutrients.
The 3 trees I just bought in Fl. is a diff. story. They were all rootbound in 5 gal. pots. I gently removed them and GENTLY removed outer inch or 2 of soil & potted up into bigger pots with CHC mix. Those roots have lots of good soil in them. I did not rinse the old soil off or soak it off so as not to shock them - they seem just fine.
Hey Laidbackdude, thanks for this thread & letting me share my story.
Patty
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Ecomtl
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 174
Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada

Posted: Tue 21 Mar, 2006 7:04 pm

I just recently transplanted my calamondin into CHCs for the first time, and I can say it went pretty well!

After reading much advice, I did the ritual cycles of rinsing, took me two days in my bath tub. I can see now after reading here today I did a no no by mixing in a bit of sand to my final mix, but it's so little, I don't think it would clog up the system. I rinsed off the outer and bottom layers of the soil I bought it in under a gentle stream of ambient to luke warm water, and left the central root ball alone. I fill the bottom of the 22 cm terra cotta, put the cal in and gently but firmly packed in the sides and top.

Now I have crazy new growth on the calamondin and it's only been over a week since the switch. I have not fertilized at all this year, and was using the wrong fertilize last summer. I will be buying miracid soon since it looks like it's all I can find here. I noticed some drooping in a few of the new leaves only yesterday and moved it away from the window a bit since it's been sunny and I have a almost bang on southern exposure. Those drooping leaves perked right back up within an hour. In all honesty, my Meyer lemon is also getting new growth but I've seen it coming for a while now, it wasn't as sudden and plentiful as the Cal, and I am losing some of the very very young growth on the Meyer, nothing on the Calamondin.

Guess I was lucky, but I learned alot of things here today for my Meyer Lemon transplant coming soon, cause it is quite a bit bigger. All and all my first experience with CHCs is super positive. Thank you Millet for introducing them to me.

Gen
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
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Location: Colorado

Posted: Tue 21 Mar, 2006 8:54 pm

Gen, (Ecomtl) thank you for joining this forum. You are very welcome here, and a valuable member. Glad to have someone from Quebec Canada. Thank you for your post. Always nice to hear sucessful stories like your transplant into CHC's, and the method you used when you removed a couple inches of the old "soil" from the root ball, and then filled in with CHC's. Take care, and welcome. - Millet
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bencelest
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Location: Salinas, California

Posted: Tue 21 Mar, 2006 8:57 pm

OK, it's been over 5 hours now since I transferred my seedless kishu into the CHC mix.
I have not seen any leaf drooping. They are all as perky as ever.
What I did was I removed the tree from a 5 gallon container and removed as much soil as I can until but the main bulk of the roots remain. What you see from top to bottom are the ends of the root system ( I did not not immersed the roots in water but only removed the soil by hand).
Then, I put the preferred CHC on the bottom of a 7 gallon black pot and put the plant at the center. Then Ipoured the CHC mixed till they were level with the top. I compacted the CHC as much as I can.
Then I got me a bigger container and put the pot in there and poured warm water to the pot till it was soaked to the brim. I left it there for about 5 minutes. Then I removed it and let it drip till it stopped .
I placed it on the east window inside my house. It should stay there for maybe 5 days till it recovers.
The leaves so far are perky and radiant. Seems happy.
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laidbackdood
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Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 180
Location: Perth.Western Australia.

Posted: Tue 21 Mar, 2006 11:19 pm

I remember some time ago millet offered three ways of transplanting the
citrus trees from either bare root or from a container in soil specimen.I
remember it was stressed that you could gently tease off all the soil and
leave bare roots,when done in warm water. So,what you are saying now,
you recommend only removing two to three inches of existing medium and
giviing two to three inches of the new chc/coir mix for it to grow into
right? S0,now are we not recommending to anyone to rinse of all old soil
medium like i did? Basically,we are after the best method of tranfer right?
Minimize shock etc. However,My tree is not dead yet!!!!!
Millet has the best success of transfer,so in your opinion,you rate the above
tranfer the best a? If thats the case,i will be different next time.I still live in
hope of my tangelo! Cheers all.
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Ecomtl
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 174
Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada

Posted: Tue 21 Mar, 2006 11:30 pm

Thanks for the invite Millet. I'm glad to be here!

_________________
Gen

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Patty_in_wisc
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Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 1842
Location: zone 5 Milwaukee, Wi

Posted: Wed 22 Mar, 2006 12:06 am

Laidback, I think I remember that too. I think just last yr (?) Millet said he got as much of old soil off as possible & gently rinsed the rootball. But, not to 'dig' out the soil so roots won't get damaged.
I hope your tree makes it -- you tried to do the best thing for it.
Sorry Millet, but I do remember that. It just didn't work for him.
And, just want you to know...again, that I didn't remove those chc's from the roots on that post. I don't know why, but the roots just didn't grow into them.
Now that I put some "filler" soil down center of roots, I hope my tree comes back.
All this CHC stuff is interesting. Hope lots of people read up & learn like I did. But then, sometimes the more I learn, the more confused I get LOL.
Patty
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Laaz
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Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 5664
Location: Dorchester County, South Carolina

Posted: Wed 22 Mar, 2006 1:08 am

Hi Patty. Different climates require different methods... I can't use CHC here as they dry out to quickly in the summer. Millet sent me a Changshaquat last spring that was potted in CHC. Durning the summer I would have to water it every day as it was bone dry each & every day. The tree has since been planted in the yard and couldn't be happier. We have very hot & humid summers here & very mild winters. My potted plants only make the trip to the garage 3-5 nights a winter.
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Millet
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Location: Colorado

Posted: Wed 22 Mar, 2006 2:16 am

Patty yes, in the past I have recommended the complete removal of most or all the soil from the rootball, when transplanting a tree into CHC. You can find these threads both on this form and on the Garden Web, when I used to post there. I still remove all or most all of the original soil from the rootball when I transplant my trees, and then transplant them into CHC/peat or CHC/coir mix. However, I have became very cautious about recommending the total soil removal to beginners or new members, because of the results that may happen when the roots are damaged when not done correctly or witout the experience required. Removing only one or two inches, is much safer, until a person gains enough experience to safely remove all or most of the soil. Removing only a couple inches, is much easie to do, and with much less chance of root damage, and has shown results almost as good, as the complete removal. - Millet
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laidbackdood
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Location: Perth.Western Australia.

Posted: Wed 22 Mar, 2006 6:14 am

sounds good advice to me.Thanking you.
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bencelest
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
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Location: Salinas, California

Posted: Wed 22 Mar, 2006 2:00 pm

Millet:
Here's my seedless kishu 24 hours after transplanting to a CHC mix. There are no leaf drop or wilt. Just as perky as ever and appears to be happier with the new sorroundings.
Thank you so much.
I removed almost all of the original soil except the inner roots I let it remain intact. I guess that is the secret.
Image hosting by Photobucket
Millet: Notice also the blossoms that are immerging.
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bencelest
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
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Location: Salinas, California

Posted: Wed 22 Mar, 2006 2:23 pm

Just as Millet said retaining some of the soil intact with the roots when transplanting to CHC the plant will recover and adjust to that. I concur to that. I would imagine the roots of the transferred plant will grow rapidly and start clinging to the CHC that sorrounds it making the transfer a success. The CHC must be a haven to the root system because of its ideal pH and the fertilizers that was added during preparation- epsom salt STEM and long lasting osmocte.
The roots will probably think that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence or something like that. In this case the root is greener on the other side of the fence. ho-ho.
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