Hi,everyone.I did the cation exchange,rinsed the soil mix off my tangelo in warm water before putting in the above mix and my tree hates me for it!!!
The new growth went droopy and the leaves have turned pale and are
dropping off! Its a sad moment in history.However,i havent given up yet
and will wait to see if it recovers.How often should i water this mix? Its still
24c to 26c here.The plant is in semi shade in a terrocotta pot 25cm.
I havent fed it anything.All my other trees are doing ok in a free draining
container mix being watered once a week.my tomatoes grew well in the
chc chips too!.cheers

Ive found that the CHCS thing seems to be a bit of a learning curve. Ive got one FD that still looks like crap, but I think I have a plan. I got the medium chips, and I think for smaller trees, the pore size between chips is just too big. Ive made sure to put in some sandy/pearlitey/cocopeaty potting soil in with the CHCs, to make sure the roots get to contact something. I havent lost any yet. the large trees took it the best (HB pummelo and Meiwa) but these 2 lost most of their old leaves recently.

I think that it is an understatement to say that there is a learning curve. Personally, I think that there is a steep learning curve. Watering and fertilizing are very different with CHC as compared to standard potting mixes.

So far, of the plants that I moved from Promix to CHC last fall, I have killed one Key Lime, and the Meyer lemon is, figuratively, just inches from the compost pile as well. The Washington Navel is dropping leaves, but they are mostly leaves with petiole attached. The foliage is looking thin, but the remaining leaves seem healthy and so I hold out some slim hope that this is normal leaf drop which will be followed by a growth flush.

My newer trees from Briteleaf seem to be doing better. That is to say, the trees moved from Promix to CHC suffered more than the trees potted straight into the CHC. I wonder whether trees well established in Promix should just stay there...alternatively, I wonder if transplantation ought not to be done in the spring. SB

Those CHC's hold water for a LONG time. My Meiwa & L. Limequat are taking a dive. Meiwa lost all but 2 top leaves - branches are still green.
Limequat has all dried & curled leaves ready to fall -except for a few lower leaves that are still green. Some branches are dead & will have to be cut. There is a small part on a black branch that looked shiny. I scraped it off - it's like a drop of epoxy that dried. Can't find any bugs. Hmmmm
I will check the roots on these now & post a pic of them.
I use wooden skewers pushed into soil to test for wetness. The top 2 inches are dry, but when I pull the skewers out, they are WET! Haven't watered for about 2 weeks.
Patty

Here's pics of my sick trees. Limequat on left, Meiwa on right. (cardboard behind to show them up better)

The ATTEMPTED red arrow is where the epoxy-looking stuff was & it's black there.

Quat roots look same as I got it last Aug. - Sept. Came rootbound in tall 4 inch pot. It's in 8 X 17" tall tree pot. The CHC's are very damp. Is this root rot?

Patty ....Wishing my cheap-piece-of-junk-camera took better close ups!

the CHCs have seemingly very different qualities depending on what the container is too. Im wondering if those narrow treepots arent too thin, like a capilary tube theyre not allowing natural drying?

Ive got an FD in a terracotta pot that is cranky, and my $10 really cute kaffir lime is languishing in a terra cotta pot as well. Just about to move them both back into plastic pots with CHCs. I did just buy some Ironite too, ive put a bit in with my regular acid fert and rainwater with a touch of epsom salts, so hopefully everyone will get happier soon.

All this talk would not make a very good commercal for CHC's. I have 75 trees in CHC's and two in the ground. I'm 75 out of 75 using CHC and peat or CHC and coir. In fact, I have not had any leaf loss or even ANY leaf wilt with any of the 75 transplants I have done. As far as transplanting I believe you can transplant a Citrus tree at any time of the year, if it is done correctly. I have transplanted trees probably in almost every week of the year. Laidback how big was the root ball when you washed the soil from the roots? In CHC's the length of time that the chips continue to hold moisture is an advantage and not a disadvantage, because of the quantity of aeriation that CHC's also provide. Lastly I am against adding sand or any other "fillers" to the CHC/coir or CHC/peat because you are defeating the purpose by filling in all the air spaces. Laidback, when you wash out the soil in the rootzone, you do not have to remove 100%, especially in order trees. I use 1/2 inch CHC's on small trees, and a mix of 1/2 and 1/4 inch on larger trees. - Millet

Hi everyone.Yes i did wash all the existing soil off my tangelo before transplanting into the chc/coir mix but i did exactly the same thing to my
vanilla orange before i put it into a well draining container mix.With that
tree,there was a small amount of shock and then it settled down and is now
growing well.I used half inch chips with the coir.The tree continues to look
upset with leaves shrivelling up and dropping.
The pot size was 25 cm for the new tree.The vanilla orange went into a 27cm
pot with the container mix.Both pots are terracotta.
It seems that some people have total joy with the chc /coir or peat moss
and some people dont. I have done what all of you do and it does not
seem to be working.
I have a theory,it could be wrong.There is one big factor that is different
for me compared to you guys= scorching heat.
The chips must dry out far quicker where you are, compared to me.The top
temp here is 24 to 26 c .I notice this mix really feels wet.The container mix
holds the moisture too but after 10 days,finger in 3 inches works well,its dry to there by then.
It is this that has been working for me in auckland anyway.I have two other trees in their original pots/soil and they are growing.They always
read wet on my cheap and nasty moisture meter! Its all interesting to
me~! I also read that citrus can survive on very little water,they dont
need to be wet.In fact they should be on the dry side. With millets trees
they are in a very hot greenhouse with high humidity.This could well be
the perfect environment for container grown citrus in chc ,especially in
winter. I have two dwarf citrus in the ground and they look very happy.
All i do is feed and water once a week. If drainage is good in both pots
and ground,then it would seem they are reasonably equal environments,
especially as you " contain" a tree in a small hole in the ground,just like
you do in a pot. I am leaning more towards a free draining container mix for the environment where i live .Thank you for all your comments and
advice,i will keep you posted

It may be true, Millet, that one can transplant any time of the year and have success. BUT, would you say that fall/winter might not be the best time for a newbie to transplant? You see, I was still learning about CHC; the watering is different, and the nutritional aspects are different that the Promix I had been using. So, it my case, a November transplant, no dolomite, too light on trace elements, too large of a container, overwatering, and pretty soon, the citrus ain't looking so good!

Someone once said that you can't overwater CHC. I might disagree with that. When I dumped the Key Lime in the compost I examined the media and the roots. No root rot, but the media was just soaking wet. The water-holding capacity of the CHC is on a scale different that almost any other growing media...that is one of it's benefits, but it does take some getting used to.

So we'll see. I've got some more trees coming this spring, they'll go in CHC. I'm going to go out this weekend and take some pictures; if the Meyer lives, he (and Patty's trees above) might be good examples for a Citrus CPR class.

Well I was, of course, not there when Laidback transplanted his tree, so I am restricted to only a guess as to the trees present condition. Coconut husks hold up to seven times their weight in water, plus the water held by either the peat moss or coir, there is certainly plenty of moisture available to the tree. The question is then, why is the tree's foliage experiencing a wilting condition, plus other poblems? The answer is obviously that the tree is not getting enough water to keep the foliage from wilting. The usual causes are 1.) lack of water, 2.) root damage, 3.) over watering, 4.) extremely high salts in the growing medium. With all the water available from the newly soaked coconut chips, plus the water available from the coir, there must be ample water available to the tree. As water in the medium is only held within the CHC/Coir approximately 30-40 percent of the growing medium is air spaces. Therefore the root system must have ample aeriation avaiable. In over watered containers trees actually are killed by being suffocated from the lack of air in the medium. Salts are certainly not a problem, as Laidback has rinsed, then re-rinsed, and once again re-rinsed the CHCs. So that leaves damage to the root system, probably when removing the original soil from the root ball. When I remove the original growing medium from a trees root system, it many times takes me two hours. I also almost never remove the very inner core of soil from the root ball, because the difficulty causes to much damage to the root system. Removal of only the outside couple inches is often times enough. Citrus roots are very frail, and damage easily, and, of course, a damaged root system has a hard time supplying water to the tree. Stressbaby, I certainly understand what your saying, but I still think a container tree can be transplanted at any time of the year when done properly. When a newbe transplants a tree, and the tree experiences problems, the cause is almost always from the manner in which he transplanted the tree, and not from the particular day he chose to transplant. As you say, when a tree is over watered, is in a container that is too large for the root system, and does not have enought trace minerals, that can be a BIG PROBLEM. In Laidback case I don't believe the size of the container was a problem, as it was only a 26cm pot. Anyway all this is my oponion . - Millet

In the citrus forum Laidback said that"i loosened the soil in a bucket of warm water,very carefully." So apparently he dissolved the soil that are clinging to the root system.
Apparently the plant came into shock because it looses the required sustenance of water/nutrients to the leaves.
I never have any problem while transplanting because I am careful not to disturb the root system as much as possible.
I also never soak the roots in water prior to transplant and if I damage the root accidentally I cut the tops off proportionate to the damage root.
Even in fact if the tree is too large, I trim the tops off anyway or the very young limbs and branches. In no time the plant will replace the cut off limbs once recover more vigorous than before.
So this is the time if you want to shape your citrus the way you want it to look in the future.
I also make sure there is no air space between the medium and the roots by soaoking the pot very heavily with warm water after transplanting so there will be continous sustenance of water to the leaves.
I also cover the plant for a few days or so to protect it fro the sun just to make sure it recovers.

This is all very interesting. No one comented if my roots have root rot & because none were dark or black, I guess it doesn't.
I will say that roots were brittle (as you can see some that broke off in the CHC mix). I gently sprayed the roots in lukewarm water & repotted in same mix. Maybe the CHC's were too big so I tore a lot of big ones in half. The CHC's were very wet...like squeezing a sponge but yet the roots were dry. Go figure!
I also soaked & rinsed the chc's many times (before original potting)...the last soaking with some fert & epsom salt.
I removed all dead leaves & cut dead branches & will take Benny's advice of keeping it out of direct sun.
Other trees seem to be JUST OK except my Moro - which recently put out new growth & blossoms - leaves are curling & dropping now. I don't know what to do except to water at the center only so the roots get more water?
Sure would love advice here. Thanks
Patty

Thanks, everyone, excellent discussion, I have learned a great deal from this thread. Millet, your reasoning is clear and concise as always.

Wondering aloud, here, perhaps the reason my newer trees did relatively well upon transplant to CHC, while my older trees did poorly, has to do with root injury. The newer trees had minor amounts of root disturbance, just enough to clean and clear a few rotten rootlets... subsequently, just a little magnesium deficiency because of improper chc preparation... otherwise doing OK.

On the other hand, I washed nearly all of the soil out from my older trees and it surely didn't take me 2 hours. I didn't appreciate any root injury, but now I suspect it must have occured.

My take home lessons would be:

1) Get the recipe right. You need the dolomite, STEM, and the right ratio of CHC to peat. Don't try to take shortcuts.

2) Get the rinse right. Cation exchange, wash out the salts.

3) Get the container size right.

4) Transplant anytime, but transplant very carefully to avoid root injury.

5) Don't go wacko with the water.

With this in mind, this weekend, I will pot up my new Citrus aurantifolia 'Persian lime' and my new 'Meyer' which were just delivered today!

Thanks again, Robert

Benny, in reading your thread, I take it that you very cautiously and gently slip the root ball of the tree that you are transplanting from the original container, and then equally carefully place the root ball into a larger container or into the ground with out removing any of the soil from the original root ball. That is fine, because you will be using the same type, or very simula, potting mixture, that was used originally. Therefore there will be no interface differential. You must do an expert job of transplanting, as I can tell by the quality of your trees, and the fullness of the crop that they produce. That brings us to the question, why then should any soil at all be removed from the original root ball when transplanting from a "potting soil" type of medium into a CHC type of medium? The reason that I believe it is best to remove some of the original soil, is because the original "soil" the root ball was constructed from is a compacted type of medium. The CHC/peat or CHC/coir that the tree will be transplanted into, has a very different texture. CHC's are light, highly airy, and quick draining. Potting soil type mixes, are realtively heavy, tight, and much slower draing, especially after the tree has been growing in them for a time. There is an interface between the two growing mediums. Irrigation water will take the route of least resistence, and flow down the sides of the container through the CHC's rather than pass through the more dense root ball. The roots will tend not to pass from one interface to another interface. Therefore, if a couple inches of soil is VERY CAREFULLY removed so that the roots will be extending into the CHC's one or two inches when the transplanting is completed, then the transplanted tree makes the adjustment quickly. The important words are "caution", and "carefully" remove the soil, so as not to damage the roots. You have all day, do not hurry, be gentle. BTW it snowed all last night, and all day today. We have 8 inches of new, much needed, snow. I transplanted 90 small seedling citrus trees of various varieties into CHC/peat today into 4x4x14 inch "Tall One" containers. Laidback, I wish the VERY BEST to you and to your tree. Take care. - Millet

I can honestly say that i rinsed the old medium off with great care.I didnt
damage the roots.I untangled them mind.I think what millet said about
the two different mediums is spot on.The roots like tight contact with the medium.I have noticed that with my chilli trees in pots.I read before that
the roots need to occupy the soil before it is compacted.Over watering
doesnt help in that respect with soil.If the roots havent filled the soil first
before compaction,your in the poo. When you take the citrus tree out of
the original pot(container mix),its always tightly packed in the soil. Just
like my chilli tres.You pot up gradually then too.So,it should work the
same for citrus if you pot up gradually,like is recommended for citrus.Then
there is only 2 inches of new medium for the roots to search into.
I still have a gut feeling my tangelo,will come through this,at the
expense of some leaf shed and i will keep it out of direct sunlight as someone
advised here.The two mediums are so different.Its like north and south.
All your opinions are interesting,with all this information ,we can only raise
the odds of a 100 per cent success rate for chc/coir container growing.
One last thing.I checked out my tomatoe plant grown in chc only.The roots looked like nothing i have seen before.They were all very fine and
lots of them and held the rootball tight,as one when lifted from the pot.
also very white.I had to rip them away from the chips,as if they didnt want to let go!!!Is white roots the definition of a healthy root system?
cheers