Anyone care to pitch some ideas here?

I have some trees (Key Lime, Meyer Lemon, and now Trovita Orange showing signs) with Chlorosis. However, I cannot pin point which deficiency they are exhibiting.

UPDATE:
Proper diagnosis here is SPIDER MITES, as you see in the details within the thread. In the pictures, you do see Scale, but that was already dead long ago and not a factor with the current symptoms.

Click to see full resolution:


Meyers Lemon (notice also, healthy new growth)


Meyers Lemon Issues (looks like dusty dirty, white/yellow intraveinal, also yellowing forming on tip, picture in sunlight)


Key Lime Issues (similar issues as others, picture in shade)


Trovita Orange (notice chlorosis on right, but also one odd leaf that is huge, long, and plastic-like on left)


Trovita Orange (closer look at chlorosis issues)

Details and history:
-4-1 CHC/peat
-Grown primarily indoors
-Watered twice a month with Jacks 25-5-15
-Meyers lemon showed first signs of the issue a few months ago
-Issue has recently grown worse (since moving outdoors into sun)

What I have NOT been doing regularly for 12+ months:
-Nothing but Jacks in the water (no trace minerals)
-No epsom soaking

What I have done recently:
-Liquid Iron (chealated overdose of iron, into soil only) (10 days ago)
-Full on Epsom treatment (1Tbl/gal, flooded during watering) (5 days ago)
-Hort Oil (killed red mites, possible spider mites I saw) (5 days ago)
-Dr Earths 3-3-3 with trace minerals (only in soil, havent tried foliar) (3 days ago)

No signs of improvement. In fact, only further progression of the issue!

Note also: I have NOT used Jacks 25-5-15 in over 2 weeks now, as I am trying to pin this issue down.

So, it seems Magnesium and Iron are voted out??? But Maganese, Zinc and maybe even Nitrogen are on the list of suspects.
(see last picture here, and also this zinc issue looks like my leaves )

Copper may be an issue on the Trovita, given its odd, huge, plasticy leaf growth. Also, could the Mites have done this? If so, why is it getting worse even though they are dead now?

Thoughts?


Questions:
-How do I add Copper for the Trovita, if I have assumed correctly it needs it?
-How do I add Zinc?

The reason I ask the above is because its obvious how to add Iron (Liquid Iron product) and Magnesium (Epsom salt), but I have no idea how to get the other elements. The Dr Earth 3-3-3 thing doesnt really pack a punch on any specific aspects (ie, if Zinc is my issue, it doesnt have a ton of Zinc, like the Liquid Iron does with iron, etc)

Lastly, I could be asking all the wrong questions if I have a pH problem, or over-watering problem... but why would that happen in the proper CHC medium?

I can't help on the chlorosis, but it looks like that they Key Lime has a Scale insect on it.

roachslayer, i could not see any chlorosis symptoms. As for me your citruses suffer from spider mites.

I openly admit I could be wrong about chlorosis. What is it about spider mites that cause this symptom/appearance?

I did note that I found and killed both red and spider mites, and will continue to apply hort oil over the next couple weeks. How long would it take the color to recover?

Also, what about that Trovita Orange? My understanding is the oversized drooping, plastic leaf is a symptom of Copper issues. But I could be wrong, and its a non-issue. If it develops blisters that burst I suppose that would be a sure fire way to know.

Good eye on the scale Mark, I was wondering who might catch that! It was scale indeed, but is a very, very dead scale from last year. In fact, the Meyer was my largest citrus, 4 years old, and now has only ONE branch (the one pictured) due to STUPID scale. It was erradicated a good 6 months ago, and I am happy to finally see new growth on the lemon (though, it will take many more years for it to recover, if at all). The key lime survived the best, only lost a few branches. Oh, and look closely at the Trovita leaf I posted... you can find more dead scale.

I suggest that you treat for all micronutrient deficiencies.

roachslayer, you also have San Jose scale ("schitovka" by russian) on the Trovita Orange leaves
I completely agree with Evaldas. You sholud treat for all micronutrient deficiencies.

Could it be a PH issue preventing uptake of the treatments?

The problem with these trees is a heavy insect problem. The trees have as bad a spider mite problem, as I've seen, plus scale. The reason that spider mites cause the leaf to have a speckled appearance is because spider mites are sucking insects. They feed by sucking out the leaf's internal juices, thus they suck out the chlorophyll. A s the mite sucks out the chlorophyll they leave behind a white speck at each point. These trees need to be sprayed with a horticultural oil such as UltraFine, or at least by 3 or more sprays of soapy water. It is never a good policy to treat a suspected deficiency with this or that nutritional element, in hopes of finding a possible cure, doing so can lead to more problems.

I don't think the tree's have a deficiency problem at all. Jack's 25-5-15 already contains all of the needed trace minerals required by citrus. There is no need to add any additional trace minerals. - Millet (900-)

Millet! In one russian forum i have read the ratio N : P : K should be 1:1:1 with some variations which depend on spring, summer, fall, winter. What do you think of it?

Serj: There is some truth to what the Russians say about citrus. To a great extent it depends a lot on whether the citrus is grown as a container tree, or is growing out doors in the ground. All citrus, whether grown as a container plant or a in ground tree, absorb nutrients through there root system in a 5:1:3 NPK ratio. Obviously, in cases of over dosage or deficiency of one or more elements this ratio must be changed to a more appropriate one. Actually, citrus are not all that picky about what fertilizer is used, especially for in ground trees. In the United States, for citrus that are grown in the ground are commonly fertilizerd with ratios of 6-6-6, 8-8-8, and even 10-10-10 . This is because any excess build-up of a fertilizer element is quickly leached away through irrigation and rainfall, therefore a build can be quite quickly controlled. However, even with out door in ground orchard trees the root absorption ratio is still 5:1:3. In a closed system such as a container it is much more important to choose a fertilizer according to the replacing of minerals used by the tree, and the tree's ratio, to avoid a build up of toxic levels of chemical. The alternative, of course to avoid problems with a container tree, would be to flush out the container ever month or so, with enough clean clear water to leach away the unused nutrients, in an effort to avoid a build up. The best course of action for container plants is to respect the tree's natural root absorption, by using a formula as close to 5:1:3 as possible. - Millet (900-)

Thank you everyone. I am confident that the issue is spider mites given all the evidence. I have updated the top of the thread for others surfing the topic in the future to have the correct info. As mentioned, I have already treated for it, and will continue to do so and monitor it.

Man, its a lot of work to get good at this. I feel I am "experienced" with soil/mediums, a "near expert" with 2 types of Scale, "aquainted" with soil fungus, "annoyed" with fungus gnats and springtails, I am "familiar" with chlorosis (not with my citrus, but certainly with my gardenias) but obviously very novice with diagnosis of health issues overall. Also still novice at fert and mineral requirements, but at least I have the right equip and supplies.

Now I will add "experienced" with spider mites to my belt. I wonder what calamity my citrus will face next. Lightning?

I'm not expecting fruit for a few years, thats my current punishment for sure.

Thanks, Millet, for sharing this helpful information! But i can't understand one thing - may i change (mildly) this "magic" ratio for blooming, fruiting? I have read that i should provide nitrogen fertilizer before blooming.

To help your tree achieve a heaver bloom, and to supply any additional nitrogen for the bloom, the industry, and hobbyist, apply a 1 percent foliage spray of either potassium nitrate or urea, approximately 1 month before the tree is expected bloom date. - Millet (899- Down another 100 days)