Citrus Growers Forum

Millet · Posted: Fri 16 May, 2008 3:28 pm

California born September 9, 1850 - Died May 15, 2008 - Millet

harveyc · Posted: Sun 25 May, 2008 10:44 pm

Okay, I missed this Bob. What brought this on???

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Harvey

dauben · Posted: Tue 27 May, 2008 12:12 am

Millet wrote:

California born September 9, 1850 - Died May 15, 2008 - Millet

It's scary living here right now. We're overdue for an earthquake and after May 15th's ruling, I expect one to occur sooner than later.

Genesis 19:24-25

Phillip

harveyc · Posted: Tue 27 May, 2008 2:13 am

An earthquake wouldn't be a surprise, but I don't think it would be because of the court ruling. The rulings by our crazy courts aren't a surprise either. If this country celebrates the freedom to chose the "right" to rip our babies apart, what should we expect from these courts?

California isn't dead but faith for many died a long time ago. Sad

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Harvey

harveyc · Posted: Tue 27 May, 2008 2:18 am

By the way, though there has been some discussion from time to time of splitting NorCal and SoCal, I've been arguing for a split of Central California and Left Coast. Sorry if that cuts some of my friends out. You're welcome to join me, the foggy cold winters aren't that bad!

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Harvey

dauben · Posted: Tue 27 May, 2008 2:44 am

harveyc wrote:

An earthquake wouldn't be a surprise, but I don't think it would be because of the court ruling.

Well, we know it won't be a flood. I saw a rainbow this weekend (in the sky, not on a flag).

harveyc wrote:

California isn't dead but faith for many died a long time ago. Sad

Yea, but read 2 Timothy 3:1-3:5. Doesn't that describe most of what you see of the people in California? Even from many of the "faithful". It didn't bother me as much until I had kids. I fear for their future.

Phillip

harveyc · Posted: Tue 27 May, 2008 2:55 am

Phillip, make no mistake about it, I don't think these times are very good. However, I also believe we have had worse periods of history and also think it will get much worse than it is now.

It's currently worse in Europe than it is even in California. Here many people have ignored God or formed Him to fit their image of what they think is right. In much of Europe, they think religion is nothing more than superstition.

I think the best we and our children can do is to openly show our love for God and be kind to one another. That doesn't mean accepting sinfulness, though. I am pretty open to talking about my faith to anyone and it does surprise people at times, but it does get easier with time and I find it inspiring when others share their faith with me.

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Harvey

Sylvain · Posted: Tue 27 May, 2008 3:41 am

harveyc wrote:

In much of Europe, they think religion is nothing more than superstition.

Yes, that's right, thanks to God.

Quote:

I am pretty open to talking about my faith to anyone

No thank you.

harveyc · Posted: Tue 27 May, 2008 3:52 am

I'll pray for you whether you like it or not, Silvain. Wink

It was God that gave you free will, but the responsibility is yours.

Sometimes people think people are religious out of ignorance, but that's just plain ignorant! Wink

By the way, there's a book out by they guy that headed the Human Genome Project that explains the clear case for belief in God. He's no "dummy"! Very Happy

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Harvey

dauben · Posted: Tue 27 May, 2008 11:39 am

harveyc wrote:

Phillip, make no mistake about it, I don't think these times are very good. However, I also believe we have had worse periods of history and also think it will get much worse than it is now.

I agree, but even in the past with the turmoil that has occurred in the world, there has never been the amount of "godlessness" that exists today. Even during the depression and the World Wars.

harveyc wrote:

It's currently worse in Europe than it is even in California. Here many people have ignored God or formed Him to fit their image of what they think is right. In much of Europe, they think religion is nothing more than superstition..

I would argue that atheism is a religion. They are the most evangelistic out of all religions and want to push their faith on the rest of society. True atheists wouldn't care what you or I thought. I would also argue that it takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be a Christian. Their current theories for how life began range from "the planet was seeded by aliens" to "life started from crystals". If you ever get a chance to see "Expelled: The movie", it does a good job of exposing their religion.

harveyc wrote:

That doesn't mean accepting sinfulness, though.

Tolerance is the new gospel. Many modern day Christians believe that tolerance is what Christianity is about. Tell that to the Pharisees, the money changers, and Herod.

Phillip

harveyc · Posted: Tue 27 May, 2008 2:37 pm

dauben wrote:

I agree, but even in the past with the turmoil that has occurred in the world, there has never been the amount of "godlessness" that exists today. Even during the depression and the World Wars.Phillip

I've read that it was even worse during Medieval times. Hard to believe, I realize.

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Harvey

dauben · Posted: Wed 28 May, 2008 11:34 am

harveyc wrote:

dauben wrote:

I agree, but even in the past with the turmoil that has occurred in the world, there has never been the amount of "godlessness" that exists today. Even during the depression and the World Wars.Phillip

I've read that it was even worse during Medieval times. Hard to believe, I realize.

Could be true, but I thought during Medieval times the crusades were going on and the Catholic church was fighting a holy war. The history channel said many of those fighting were fighting for religious purposes rather than state sponsored purposes. It's hard to imagine a drop during this time, but I honestly don't know. Medieval times could span a much greater time period than when the crusades were going on.

The Old Testament has several examples of when the Jews would turn away and worship pagan gods such as Bale. The OT is full of examples of turning away, repentence, and returning to faith.

Phillip

harveyc · Posted: Wed 28 May, 2008 12:25 pm

My memory on this is incomplete; I listen to Catholic radio just about whenever I drive and hear some things which I don't remember completely.

Yes, you're right on the OT. Just finished reading some of Kings and Chronicles and, besides the fact that it's difficult to read many of those names, it's amazing how often a King would turn the people away from God. Seems every time they had things going too good the heir to the throne would screw things up!

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Harvey

dauben · Posted: Fri 30 May, 2008 12:32 am

harveyc wrote:

My memory on this is incomplete; I listen to Catholic radio just about whenever I drive and hear some things which I don't remember completely.

My wife bought me an audio Bible to listen to in the car. I have roughly 2 hours per day in my commute so I've gone through the entire Bible twice. It's amazing how much I forget by the time I go back the second time. The CD's are actually put together pretty well. Before we were married, she bought me the Old Testament on audio tape. It was James Earl Jones reading in his Darth Vader voice. It just about put me to sleep. I don't think I got through Genesis.

harveyc wrote:

Yes, you're right on the OT. Just finished reading some of Kings and Chronicles and, besides the fact that it's difficult to read many of those names, it's amazing how often a King would turn the people away from God. Seems every time they had things going too good the heir to the throne would screw things up!

Yes, Chronicles was even hard to listen to. The Prophetic books of the OT are hard also. With the exception of Daniel, they need to be studied along with reading them. It's amazing how much of what was prophesied came true and verifiable by both Biblical and secular sources.

Phillip