Citrus Growers Forum

Citrus_Killer · Joined: 06 Nov 2011 Posts: 11 Location: Colorado, USA

Just wanted to give those that have so graciously been helping me a quick update.

Well, I couldnt resist and repotted the lime in CHC/Peat this afternoon. Actually, I am glad I did as the old medium had really compacted because of the fine sand that was in the potting soil.

I was careful to take my time and not damage any roots. I carefully washed the root ball off with warm water until all of the loose soil was dislodged. The roots had a pale yellowish color and appeared to be strong.

The new medium is 4:1 CHC to Peat with a handful of perlite thrown in for good measure (I know it isnt necessary but I had a nearly empty bag I wanted to use up).
Who knows if this will help or not, but at least it is another improvement to give it a fighting chance!

Now I just need to rig something up to help with the humidity.

-Clint

Root Ball:

Old Medium:

New Medium:

jrb · Posted: Mon 14 Nov, 2011 4:32 am

Looking at the root ball, I see another potential problem. It appears the tree came out of a small pot before you re-potted it the first time and the roots are very densely packed in a medium that probably doesn't accept water very well. How wet or dry was the root ball when you removed the tree? After re-potting the tree into a larger pot with a more free draining medium, the water will often flow around the original root ball and never penetrate it. Each time you water the tree it is probably best to fill the pot with water and allow it to sit for a few minutes so the water can penetrate the root ball then allow it to drain completely.

When you increase the size of the pot it is easier to manage watering if it is not more than two to four inches larger in diameter then the original.

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Jim

Citrus_Killer · Joined: 06 Nov 2011 Posts: 11 Location: Colorado, USA

Thanks for the tip. Yes, the plant originally came in a small, one gallon pot about 6 in diameter. I repotted it in an 8 pot immediately after I purchased it.

The root ball seemed moderately moist when I took it out, but honestly, I was surprised by how little growth there has been since I bought it three months ago. I figured the roots would have spread a little by now.

-Clint

Citrus_Killer · Joined: 06 Nov 2011 Posts: 11 Location: Colorado, USA

If everyone can put up with another novice question, I had something else to ask the experts. I have read that it is hard to overwater with CHC because of the air circulation provided by that medium.

Based on this, and because it seems my problem is lack of water reaching the leaves, would watering frequently over the next week or two help the plant recover?

Thanks again,
Clint

Laaz · Posted: Tue 15 Nov, 2011 3:14 pm

Heat the rootzone & you should see some improvement.

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Citrus_Killer · Joined: 06 Nov 2011 Posts: 11 Location: Colorado, USA

Thanks, Laaz, but I have been heating it for the last two-and-a-half weeks without any change. That is what has me perplexed. The root zone hasn't dropped below 70F for days, yet it keeps dropping leaves.

I just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. It has heated roots, it has eight hours of filtered light, it has humidity; however, it is still unhappy. Darn plant! Laughing

Repotting in CHC was kind of my last resort and doesn't seem to be making a difference yet, but I probably need to give it more time.

-Clint

Laaz · Posted: Tue 15 Nov, 2011 5:13 pm

It takes time, it won't fix itself overnight...

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Citrus_Killer · Joined: 06 Nov 2011 Posts: 11 Location: Colorado, USA

Okay, thanks for the reassurance, Laaz.

Ill try to be patient! Very Happy

Millet · Posted: Wed 16 Nov, 2011 12:42 am

You cannot over water a CHC medium that has been made properly. Remember it is NOT the amount of water that damages or kills a tree, it is the lack of root zone oxygen that causes the problems. You can soak your tree in a larger container of water, four or five minutes should work fine. I have many times just left some of my tree soaking over night in a larger container of water until the following morning, and have NEVER EVER EVER had a problem. - Millet (426-)

Steve · Posted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 1:10 am

Karoly wrote:

Please, let me to add a little observation regarding to WLD. This is the third winter when Im keeping at warm temps my Key Lime during winter because From my point of view one of the biggest problem keeping the citrus plant in the house is that the air will become dry during winter due to heating and the citruses from my observations are very sensitive to high oscillations of humidity which causing also WLD. To prevent WLD Im trying to avoid the air humidity to drop below 50%.
Im could be wrong but this is working for me.

Well, many circumstances help to prevent WLD or minimize the effect. WLD itself isn't a thing, it's a phenomena of imbalance in water system of the plant. High water demand in the leaves by good temperatures and high solar radiation can quickly lead to proper leaf function, thus to an increased water demand within the plants upper parts. The root ball itself, often shaded or due the used potting media remains cool or cold, thus root activity does not get in relation with the leaf activity - thus the plant has a higher demand for water, what cannot be delivered by the root system - causing a symptoms of water stress, even if the moisture in the root ball is good.

So, this imbalance leads to WLD, not humidity. Humidity can help, because in high humidity less water is evaporated - thus the demand of water is lower, than in dry air. In dry air more water is need, especially if the plants sits onto a radiator from were the warm air rises thru the leafy canopy...
So in the old, the orangeries were cold - the gardener promoted heat only to that extent, that the water in a dish would not form ice, just enough... this was really an art. But cold air is usually not bone dry, it's soaked with humidity if you watch a hygrometer. If the temperature drops below freezing, then the air will get bone dry - much more than in many deserts of the earth. Wink

So if your plants deal with cold circumstances, a humid environment help to prevent WLD - as certain other factors too. But, the main goal is the trick to keep the plants at dormancy. Citrus does biologically know no dormancy - the stop of activity below a given temperature threshold is more like a coma, rather than a dormancy. Dormant trees shed their leaf, just to ensure that no water or less water will be evaporated. All nutrients within the liquid plant content will be taken out and stored - this will lead to those awesome autumn colors - because of having the cell wall colors appear, which are yellow an dark brown - resulting coloration from yellowish green to deep dark red.
A plant will protect their buds with special, woody shells from frost during dormancy - young shoots have a bad to non water regulatory system, so may be much ore prone to high water evaporation, thus have to be protected.
None of this has citrus.
So citrus does not go into a dormancy - strikly spoken. It goes into a status of very, very limited activity - because not adapted to such situations. It's like cooling a human down, even here the activity of life starts to get very slow or might be nearly stopping.... this situation is dangerous for humans, but: It's not dormancy or being asleep.
Even with citrus... it only not that critical Wink

So... to prevent WLD the best way is - to keep the roots warm. You can shade the canopy and let the sunlight touch a dark colored pot - so the sun will heat up the pot much more, than the shaded canopy. This is done in italy with many of their Etrog orchards - just to ensure no damage.
But you also can heat up the root system.

I use heating mats under my pots, and keep the root ball at temperatures around 22-24° C. The air humidity above the radiator is less than 30% rH - and I have no problem. It only gets worse, if I forget irrigation. Because low humidity and warm roots - and now a water stress will lead to a serious problem and I encounter the same problem as with WLD - what proves the theory of a imbalance in water demand and water delivery.

Hope, this helps a little...

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