Ned, you bring up a VERY interesting point. Very interesting indeed. You are correct that when a bud is taken from a mature tree, the bud "remembers" where it was located on the tree that it was taken from. I have often wondered if the bud actually "remembers" its particular node count number, or if in reality, the bud only remembers that it is a mature bud irrespective of where on the tree it came from. I do not know if there is any similarity between buds and hard wood. Is it only the bud that is mature, and not the hard wood, or are both the bud and the hard wood mature? When one cuts a piece of bud wood, and roots the entire stick, the resulting growth is mature, but again is it because of the bud that flushes out is remembering that it is a mature bud, and the hard wood has nothing to do with it? What you are saying if I get it right, is that an immature piece of citrus hard wood that is three years old, does the stick remember that it is three years old and when rooted starts growing at that point, instead of starting from day one, or does the hard wood remember nothing and starts at the beginning. Interesting!! - Millet

One last point. My guess is that either no research at all, or not very much research has been done on the question, because why would anyone cut immature bud wood to use for grafting or budding? One would only cut budwood that was already mature. - Millet

Very good question. From my experience rooted branches continue to produce mature leaves and also produce fruit within a year or two. Mature buds do the same.

If you cut a tree back, the new sprouts begin the maturity count anew, depending how far you cut back. If you take a sprout, that originates from a root (root sucker), the resulting plant will perform as a new seedling.

The intervening part between the first bud and the second is actually the result of that bud having elongated and formed a stem (internode), so, in actuality the stem is an extension of that bud. This continues throughout the life of the plant. If the age of the plant is carried in a genetic code of some sort, it seems to me that it would have to be carried in the internode, as well as the bud, otherwise the new bud would not have a basis on which to determine it's age in relation to the previous bud. If that is the case, it seems to follow that the age factor (or maturity factor) of the code, would always be the same at a given level on the tree.

I have to be careful here. I am, without a doubt, talking above my grade level. Last night I read a little in an old botany textbook I have, and what I read seems to fit this picture. With advances in genetics, they may know more now, but that book indicates that they were unsure at the time, of exactly what was happening within the plant, that causes the buds to know their age. It cannot be the age of the bud, because the youngest bud is actually the most mature.

I hope someone smarter that I am jumps in here to help give us a better understanding of the process..

From someone who know very little about this,(maybe I don't understand the question), but how could one ever know if the hard wood part has any knowledge of the maturity since there is no way to produce a plant from the hardwood alone-- only the buds can produce new growth --so whether the new growth comes from a T-bud graft, limb graft, or a rooted cutting all growth goes through a bud--is that not correct?

Skeet

>>>>>"It cannot be the age of the bud, because the youngest bud is actually the most mature."<<<<<<

Ned, I would put it another way, in that the youngest bud is not the most mature, it is the "oldest". If one defines "mature" as being able to produce offspring (fruit).

Skeeter, your correct. I does not really matter if the hardwood is mature or not as the stick will never produce anything. It is always the bud. However, it is a challenging question. All in all, I believe Ned has found the correct answer. - Perhaps! - Millet

I think a budless citrus stick may be able to grow. Certainly, I've had seedlings which have been cut right back after damage of some kind, which have then started regrowing from some part of the remaining stem where there was no obvious bud at all.
So I wonder, for instance, if a budless stick cutting could be rooted and then form a bud somewhere unexpected.
Mike

>>>>>"started regrowing from some part of the remaining stem where there was no obvious bud at all."<<<<<<

Mike, when a "budless" branch sends forth a new re-genitive growth, the new growth is from a latent bud. Latent (dormant) buds, can be so small/hidden one does not see them. I'm thinking there has to be a bud for growth??? - Millet

Millet, I think my statement would have been more accurate to if I had said that the youngest bud is more advance towards sexually maturity than it's predecessors. It is hard to get a hold on that statement because it is contrary to conventional wisdom.

Mike, I do know that a lot of plants have adventitious buds on the stems, and sometimes on the roots. We grow several plants at our nursery using root cuttings. I am not sure if this is true of all citrus, but I have seen citrus trees sprout from rootstock roots, where an old grove was removed. In that case, the roots had some sort of latent buds. I saw this on one of our family trips to Disney World many years ago. Based on what I know now, I would guess the rootstock was some sort of rough lemon. At the time I just knew it was citrus, and found the root sprouts very interesting. I think I might have even pulled one or two up and brought them home.

I believe I have read somewhere that the regular buds are sometimes covered as the bark grows, they lie dormant, and can be stimulated to grow, if the plant, or a limb is cut off.

Your seedling resprouting is a new one on me. Maybe the embryo has auxiliary buds.

I took too long to write my reply, didnt' mean to repeat anything anyone else had already stated.

Ned, one of the common methods of propagation for some species is by root cuttings. Any way Ned, thank you for posting such a great question. Certainly got the brain cells moving. - Millet

There have got to be many dormant buds under the bark. I have many times "Topped" trees and from under the bark where there was no visible bud, a new branch emerged...

still trying to digest all the info.. Lots to learn..
Wish I had good info to add in..

shoot.. I was going somewhere with this and kid distracted me and I lost my train of thought..
my train gets derailed too often.. LOL

If it comes back to me I'll repost..
Gina *BabyBlue*

This has been an interesting point-- the idea of where the maturity information is contained and as I was driving today, it occurred to me to bring up the point that when mature trees are cut back to near the ground (as after a freeze), the buds that would have been on the remaining part of the tree would have been very young at the time they were formed and therefore "immature" (for a tree grown on it's own roots).

Therefore, if the information is only in the bud, it would take a tree grown on it's own roots much longer to return to bearing fruit than a grafted tree that was cut back in a similar way (since the buds on the grafted tree would be from "mature" wood).

Has anyone had experience with a tree on it's own roots being cut back to near ground?

Skeet