Hi, this is my first post here, but I've been reading the forums for some time.
A few weeks ago I received an Early St Ann satsuma via mail. Unfortunately it did not take shipping well, and promptly dropped approx. 75% of its leaves. On occasion I've had similar issues with getting citrus and other sub-tropicals in the mail. The tree looks to have been in good shape before shipping... it had 15-20 small fruit growing. I went ahead and removed the fruit except one and have waited for the tree to stabilize. It has not dropped any additional leaves in the last week.

It now appears that the tree is getting ready to put out some new growth. I am planning on planting it out in ground (I'm in a warmish 6b, coastal Massachusetts) and will be protecting using a setup similar to frank_zone5.5. My question is this: should I go ahead and plant now, or wait for the new growth?

Thanks
-Scott

Planting it now should not hurt the new growth, just be careful with the roots.

The sooner you get it out of the pot and in the ground the better off it will be.

Always plant or pot new ASAP.

The new groth is to get enough leafes again.

You would not have to put all almost all fruits, but I guess it will bloom soon again.

Thanks for the replies. Currently all of my citrus are in containers except for a Flying Dragon that is going on it's second year in ground with no protection. It was my inclination to go ahead and plant the St Ann, but I just wanted to make sure. Since it didn't handle shipping too well I'd like to make sure I don't stress it any more than I need to, especially after a lengthy search for a source that could ship an Early St Ann. Because the growing season is so much shorter than down south, I like the idea of having an early maturing variety (I also have an Armstrong Satsuma that I picked up from Stan McKenzie while on the way to visit relatives in GA last summer as a backup).

-Scott

As far as I understand, there is a risc on surviving the winter at your area ...

If that is true, you better keep a security copy.
Make it by cuttings, marcotting or grafting.

Sanguinello, yes there is a definite risk regarding winter survival in zone 6b. From looking at some of the other threads on the board, I know that frank_zone5.5, who is in a significantly colder part of Massachusetts than I am has developed a pretty good protection scheme: link What I plan on doing is similar to Frank's setup using a large volume of water but I do not want to use any artificial heating.

I ran a test last winter of what amounted to a cold frame where the walls were constructed out of several buckets filled with water and used an old double glazed full glass patio door as a roof. Inside the cold frame the lowest soil temp got down to ~40 deg F (measured 2-4 inches deep). The coldest air temperature I measured was 27 deg F (the outside air temp was 7 deg) and the interior temperature only dropped below freezing for a few days all winter. Whereas the high temp inside was ~85 deg F measured about 4 inches below the glass roof.

Water is one of the best possible insulators. It has a very high heat capacity (~4.2 kJ/(kg deg C)) and gives off an enormous amount of heat energy at the phase transition from liquid to solid (the heat of fusion to go from liquid to solid is ~335 kJ/kg). Approximately 80 times more heat is released on freezing the water at 0 deg C than is by cooling the same mass of water by 1 deg C! So if what you are trying to protect can handle a few deg. below freezing (and you are not providing any additional external heat from heaters, lamps, etc...) you actually want the water to freeze when the outside temperature gets significantly below freezing. Of course you don't want all of the water to freeze and there will have to get enough solar radiation to warm it back up during the day. The trick will be to make sure I have a large enough reservoir of water to adequately moderate the interior temperature of the structure.

Based on my little test last winter, I'm most concerned about about making sure the interior air temperature of my protection will not get too high. The potential for air temps in the 80-90 deg F range when the soil temp is in the low 40's will probably not make for a happy citrus tree. There are several possible ways to address this. I'll probably start by trying to make sure I have enough thermal mass of water to also moderate the high temps inside the cold frame. If that isn't enough, then I can crack open the roof (or put on a shade cloth) on sunny winter days.

Sorry for the wandering discussion on the physical properties of water (and for switching back and forth between Fahrenheit and Celsius). I know much of this has been discussed previously by Millet and others, but it's hard to resist, I'm a chemist by day.

Well, I admire the efforts of all that guys who manage to gro citrus and other exotics in a far too cold area, but I just wonder why all that effort ... ?

A wintergarden or hothouse is much easier to make and really the price worth.

You need no hardy sorts then, but can plant what ever you liked.
Can sit under your trees in cozy warm while blossoms and fruits surround you and must never fear an extreme coldness will destroy all your efforts ...

By these arguments several of my friends built them such and nobody ever regreted it ...

BTW, last winter here was - 28° C ...

Hi Scott

Great new addition. Keep us updated on its progress. Last winter was unusual since it was our second warmest since records started in 1905 so keep that in mind. Winter sun & excess warmth doesn't seem to be an issue in my palm protection unless it's November or past Feb 1. I'm in coastal Massachusetts too but I'm just east of Providence.

Well it's in the ground now. We'll see how it does.

It should grow fast before winter comes ...
The thicker the Stem, the better.

very nice you are well on your way!!

I would also recommend a thomasville as u get tons of fruit relatively fast from them...........for me keeping 4 trees alive isnt much more work than 1

for the colder months I would recommend just buttoning it up, no sun or excesive heat................

keep us post on how it goes

where in mass are u? your welcome to come by and check out my trees.................

Frank,
I actually already have a Thomasville, although it's probably not ready to plant outside and go through a New England winter. I got it for $5 as a reclamation project (a short ~1 ft tall stick with 3-4 shorter new branches) from Stan McKenzie last August. After not doing much all winter, it's only recently begun to put on new growth. It was reading some of your earlier posts about how well your Thomasville is doing that prompted me to try it.

As far a protecting goes, I was just planning on surrounding the tree w/ a few 30 gal drums filled with water and then build some simple enclosure around it to keep out the wind. I probably won't wrap w/ blankets, blue tarp, etc... like you do. I've planted the St. Ann right by my back door, so whatever the protection ends up being, I'll have to look at it everyday all winter (unless it's buried under snow!).

well I have put a lot of thought into this lol, all my outdoor trees grow much better than my potted ones..............

I dont think the satsuma will make it w/o a min plastic and likely something to prevent radiational cooling during the cold nights.......the buckets of water will or may freeze..................