I have two trees in particular that are suffering from leaf drop. They are all grown in CHC/peat moss at 3:1 ratio. They are in 15 gallon fabric Smart Pots.

The one on the right is the Improved Meyer Lemon. The Tarocco on the left also suffered leaf loss but not to the extent as the Meyer Lemon. A Moro is in the middle and appears fine and is still in its original pot and soil.



The Oro Blanco Grapefruit on the right has lost most of its leaves but has a lot of flowers. The Owari Satsuma Mandarin on the left seems fine.



I fertilized once with a citrus/avocado fertilizer from OSH about a month ago.

I see absolutely NO signs of any new growth flushes on any of these trees.

Any help or recommendations would be appreciated.

How often are you watering?

Some of the leaves in the other containers look like the beginning of curling.

I water every few days. No specific number of days. I try to water until the water runs out of the bottom and them some. Being fabric pots, its hard to really saturate the chips but I try to as best I can.

Would you agree that it looks like it could be due to lack of water?

It sure appears to be lack of water. CHC is notoriously hard to get saturated. I never use CHC except as a 1-2inch layer the bottom of the that serves as a wick to help dry out medium in times of heavy rain or excess moisture.

I think these fabric pots will fit in a plastic tub. Since the role of a fabric pot was to prune the roots as they reach the sides, will they still be able to root prune if the sides of the fabric are up against the side of a plastic pot?

Maybe the CHC has gotten too dry and when you water, it flows right through.

Try setting the pot in a tub of water for 30 minutes to saturate the CHC.

We've had some decent rain here for the past several weeks that has kept my CHC damp and when it is slightly damp, it will take up water better.

From reading through Hilltop's post, two items stick out, at lest to me. 1). You are not fertilizing often enough to maintain a good growth, especially for a containerized citrus tree, 2). You must be letting your medium become too dry, before you re-water it. If your worried about over watering your tree, you need not worry, as it is almost impossible to over water a proper CHC medium. In posts on this forum, a year or more back, I wrote about a watering trial that I tested on one of my citrus trees growing in a 7 gallon ARPC filled with a CHC/peat mix. I watered the tree every single day for and entire month, along with several applications of fertilizer, with zero damage from over watering. Remember, it is NOT the amount of water that damages the tree, it is the lack of root zone oxygen that causes the damage. If I may, I would make one comment about, "CHC being notoriously hard to get saturated". I can only speak about CHC purchased from The Crystal Company of Saint Louis, Mo., as I only purchase CHC from that one source. The Crystal Company, washes and then squeeze "dry" (in a large press) their chips three times before selling them. They do this for two reasons. First to wash out soluble salts, and second to put many small fissures throughout their chips for better and quicker water absorbency. At least with CHC from The Crystal Company, I have found that their product absorbs liquids rapidly. I cannot speak for other suppliers. - Millet (966-)

I will try to water it daily. It would be very hard for me to soak it in a tub as it would get very heavy and I wouldn't be able to lift it out.

What's a good frequency for fertilization? Weekly? Every two weeks? Monthly?

Here is the fertilizer I use

Did you state this somewhere:
When did you purchase the trees?
How long have they been in your new containers?
What CHC did you use?
What peat mix?
Did you add any other things to the soil, like gypsum?

I have those same fabric pots but I have not yet used them in the CHC mix (I was just about to). I also have the same plastic buckets with the rope handles (they are typically 18gallon containers). I've a slightly hotter climate than you, with a bit less rain. I do have a CHC mix in one Fanntum fabric container, it's been in there less than a month but the tree (so far) appears to be doing fine.

I wouldn't give up yet on the smart pot - but it *might* be a lost cause in our climate. In my smart pots, I'm using a 50% bark/peat soil mix. A couple times I've struggled re-wetting soil in them, but I did do it and the trees are still OK. There is one caveat with using fabric containers that I've noticed: the trees have tended to decline immediately after placing them in the container, then perk up later. I assume this is due to immediate "root loss" (i.e. pruning) when any roots are near the edge of the container. I've always fanned out roots when re-potting. I don't know if this applies to you, since you went straight from #5 container to 15g pot.

Since this thread advice thus far is leaning toward watering, it is important to learn pot weight -- even though it may be hard b/c it's heavy to lift for one person. If it were me, here's what I would do:

(as suggested) fill up the 18g plastic container half-way with water. Put the smart pot tree into the water and soak for 30 mins. When done, if you want to, siphon the "extra" water out between the sides. Otherwise, I'd get someone to help you pull the container out of the plastic pot and set it on the ground. After it has drained out, maybe a few hours in direct summer sunlight, I would then lift the pot.

This is the important part: Learn how heavy the pot should be when the CHC mix is completely saturated. Heck, I'd take out my scale and weight it -- but that's just me.

Many people use the "lift the pot" method to see if the container mix needs watering. Since CHC is very light when dry and very heavy when wet, this method should work very very well. You should easily discern if your CHC is fully saturated or hydrophobic by (attempting) to lift the smart pot. You don't need to pick up the entire tree, with experience you'll know by lifting one side with one hand. The difference for a CHC mix should be like night and day.

Since you have one tree still left in the original container, I'd like to share my opinion on something. I have 50+ citrus trees now, but have only been doing citrus container culture for 4 years (in-ground much longer than that). the more I experiment with various soils, bare rooting & potting up during different seasons, etc I'm starting to be of the opinion that trees purchased with "decent" potting soil at nurseries or most big box stores (like from FourWinds, Monrovia, even C&M from Walmart ) the trees should be left alone for the first year in the original container. Thus far, the only trees I suggest changing the soil out immediately are from Willits & Newcomb (the ones at Costco). Not only are those trees larger with more roots, the W&N soil is poor for container soil, but is good for in-ground plantings (even their tag directions do not discuss container plantings at all). This is my opinion for trees purchased (and remaining) from nurseries in our area. The only thing I suggest doing is using a cache pot, putting the original black container inside a larger one and then surrounding the difference with large bark. This will keep the root zone cool enough in summer and protect it from cold in winter.

I reviewed your other posts and even back then Millet had recommended you do a full soak as we are doing here. If you are going to take the advice of a group of experienced citrus growers and build their CHC mix recipe,you should be taking their advice on care when something goes wrong.

I took my 15gal smart pot and did exactly what they suggested -- and after soaking yes it was DANG heavy that I didn't want to lift on my own. With one other person, we were able to lift it out by supporting the bottom with one hand, pulling on the side with the other. I'm just barely strong enough to carry the 18gal plastic containers with a fully soaked peat mix, but the CHC was heavier and the fact it was fabric I didn't want to carry it myself.

I will say this again: do a full soak. It is important. Not only to ensure CHC hydration, but learning to tug on the side (weight check) will help educate you to avoid trouble in the future with hydrophobic CHC/peat. It happens quickly in Smartpots b/c it's fabric and black and the sides dry fast when in full sun.

It is a good idea to use a cache pot around the smart pot in our climate. You can still achieve a decent (if not complete) level of root pruning if you put the smart pot in the plastic and fill the space between them with large bark pieces (do not use powdery smaller sizes). If you can fit large bark, or even packing peanuts, there is enough air for root pruning.

You need to drill holes in the bottom of the plastic container if you intend to keep the Smartpot'ed trees in them.

If you want to "give up" you can return them to Lowes/HD, they do honor the warranty pretty well. But you need the original container as well as the original receipt -- they don't usually budge on that (where I live). Put the trees back and if they look somewhat decent, they will probably throw them back on the nursery rack, if they don't sell then they'll put them on clearance.

The trees can recover, they likely won't be "permanently" harmed if the problem was really hydration in the fabric container and they start recovering in the next month or two.

In the future for your citrus trees, if you see lots new leaf growth start and they all fall off when very small, there is definitely a problem that's not WLD -- probably under watering or fert. On some trees with smaller leaves (some mandarins) they flush with tons of small leaves and naturally drop a percentage of them before they get big. We are discussing leaves, not fruitlets which will mostly all drop when small.

Do you have any other pictures of the root zone on that Tarocco? The pics you posted were blurry and the colors didn't seem right, but maybe it's just me. Were the roots really grey like they appear in the photo? Did you touch any of them, were they dry and did some roots fall to the ground on their own when you were holding it for the photo?

One thing I failed to mention was that although the 18 gallon tubs have holes, I have enough water pressure that I am able to fill them up until they over flow. It slowly drains out so the chips are getting a pretty good soaking. I wasn't ignoring other peoples advice but trying to find an easier solution and get the same results and I think I found it with the slow draining tubs.

The roots to the Tarocco were more tan in color. They were not brittle. There were a few new white tips, very few, but they were there.

I'm encouraged that I'm seeing new growth on my Meyer Lemon. I just noticed it this morning but the funny thing is is that its all on the trunk rather than the branches. The CHC was still moist and I filled up the slow draining tub again.

Two grafts that I put on my Owari Satsuma are also sprouting, so I'm encouraged by that as well.

I really do appreciate all of the advice that I receive from here.