I'm venturing onto unknown territory here.......persimmons.

I have plenty of the wild variety persimmons growing on my property. They are much too astringent to eat, even after they ripen and fall off the tree.

I have been considering grafting some non-astringent varieties onto a couple of the trees. I am wondering though, how will the pollination
from the other wild persimmons affect the taste of the grafted ones?

I'm assuming that the tree stock and cultured variety will be compatible,....is this true?

I'm hoping someone can advise me on the advisability of this newly planned enterprise.

Kaki (Japanese) persimmons are nicely graft-compatible with native (D. virginiana) rootstocks. If you graft a kaki variety that requires cross-pollination, you'll need a pollen source variety that is also D. kaki; the native persimmon won't pollenize it. But many kaki varieties are parthenocarpic (don't need pollen and make seedless fruit), so if you use those varieties, you don't need to worry about a pollen source. In any case, the astringency or other undesirable characteristics of your local trees will not pass to your kakis through pollenation nor by any other means.

Numerous methods of grafting these have been posted here on other threads. The method I learned 30+ years ago, which I still very much like, is to chip bud the kaki onto the D. virginiana, usually in early October (what good timing here!) when the virginianas' leaves have turned red, but not yet fallen. Use a shallowly-cut scion on a shallow rootstock wound. Leave the graft wrapped until early spring. We get nearly 100% success by that method.

Wow, what timing! Tks Malcolm.

Now the next question is: Are these varieties cold hardy? Do they need special care?

I will begin my search for some Kaki scions. Does anyone have some to share or sell? Tks.

They're not as cold-hardy as the native one, but I'd think they'll likely be fine in your area. Not sure. You might check to see if Clemson has a variety collection, and if they share wood. I know the University of Florida does.
MM

Is the budding method particularly for success with D.kaki onto D.virginiana ?
When I chip bud D.kaki onto D.kaki stocks, I dont like to cut too deeply when working the stock, but I wouldn't call it shallow. Then i'm not getting 100% take either.

I've never grafted kaki/kaki. But I presume it would be the same. The problem with persimmon is that slimy sap that they ooze from wounds -- in the fall, they're shutting that production down. But you don't want them totally dormant, or the graft won't heal well. The shallow cut, combined with the trees going dormant, minimize the bleeding while still allowing a good union to form before winter. At least that is what I was told my my grafting mentor, 30+ years ago. I've actually not tried at other times of year, nor other grafting methods, since this method has always given me nearly 100% success. I know others have posted here in the past that they do use other methods and at other seasons, successfully.

Malcolm

Citrusgalore,

Kaki persimmons should do fine for you. Here is Clemson's guide to persimmon culture:
http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgic/plants/vegetables/tree_fruits_nuts/hgic1357.html

I, like Dr. Manners, use a chip bud in the fall. You can also use some of the methods described elsewhere on this forum. From the description of what you are wanting to do, you may have to consider other grafting methods. Fall chip budding works best for me on seedlings grown over the summer. If I understand your situation, you have young trees on your property, which I suspect are primarily sprouts from the roots of mature trees.

I can send scions of Fuyu and Sajo. Send an emal or PM if you want some.

Ned

I've found persimmon grafting not any harder than any other grafting. I had good luck spring budding to 1/2" caliper rootstock I bought from Womacks nursery in DeLeon, TX. I've also Texas bark grafted with good luck. I recommend sticking with the astringent varieties. They are sweeter and the birds don't get every one. Mocking birds are picking off all my non-astringent icki kei ki jiro right now. They get them before they are really good to eat. They don't bother the astringent ones until they start to turn soft, giving me a chance to pick some mature ones. My personal favorites are Giombo and Saijo. The non-astringent ones are OK, but not as sweet. I've grown/sampled about 15 varieties of kaki and they are more alike in taste than different. I plan to order 2 dozen rootstock this winter when Womacks starts to ship. I've had several peoples asking for persimmon trees this year and I didn't have any to sell.

I can provide budwood. Contact me off the list.

Phil, you should put bird netting over your persimmon trees to keep out the birds. You can purchase bird netting (14' X 1000' up to 20,000') from Jim's Supply Company, Inc. Bakersfield, CA. Tel. (805)-324-6514 Web. www.jimssupply.com I use their netting on my grapes.

Millet (1,199- Now down another 100 days)

The birds get their share here too, but I can live with the limited number they get. It is the racoons and oppossums that would clean me out if I didn't take some sort of action. For them I have found there is no substitute for a electrified wire around the tree about 8 inches aboue the ground.

Ned