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mrtexas
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Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 1029
Location: 9a Missouri City,TX

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:04 am

Very interesting book. This book spells out the cause of the 2008 financial meltdown. I haven't read anything that really spells it out before although I've tried since 2008 to figure it out.

Wow the lefties keep saying it was greed, how convenient a thing to say when the real cause was changing from sound lending practices that had worked for 60 years to "fair" lending practices so everyone could own a home whether they could pay or not. As if banking wasn't the most regulated business in America! And of course Dodd/Frank didn't touch the real cause, Freddie and Fannie.

It all started with Clinton when he lowered capital reserve requirements for banks and Fannie Mae(GSE) lowered the qualifications for lending. Funny Fannie Mae had only half the capital requirements of commercial banks.The GSEs were supposedly private enterprise but the head guy, Jim Johnson was intensely political and knew how to turn the screws of government. Getting rid of Glass Stegal allowed commercial and investment banks like Travelers and Citi to merge again after being forbidden for 60 years which resulting in banks getting too big to fail. Clinton also stopped issuing 30 year treasuries. That left only the toxic mortgage 30 year paper as a replacement.

Can't blame it all on Clinton though. The clueless W and Greenspan kicked the can down the road when it could have been stopped. The rating agencies like S&P also contributed by rating bad loans as AAA. We didn't learn a thing from the Savings and Loan fiasco of the 1980s!
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Stoddo2k11
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Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Posts: 98
Location: Seatte, WA, USA, North America, Earth, Milky Way

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:52 am

I don't know how much politics and politicians played a role but it seems to me banks should bear the brunt of blame. Most all banks started issuing a loan that required no job, no credit history and no collateral - it only required the applicant to provide a credit rating number. Banks knew people couldn't repay these loans but they wanted to compete with other banks that did offer these loans. And lets not forget the ARM loans they pushed too.

I've also run into stories where Real Estate agents helped people give higher loans than they could afford and up-sell far more house than clients could afford to buy. It doesn't seem to me the Real Estate agents gave back huge commissions when people got foreclosed on.

Then of course there is society pressures of spending lots of money to furnish every single room of a large house.

There should be plenty of blame to go around but I don't know we're gonna start by blaming Clinton? I've listen to lots of programs about the banking crisis and the language becomes very complex when they start talking about strange insurance policies and credit default swaps and corporate paper, etc. By I could be wrong, its just seems Clinton is a prime scape goat. If his policies were so wrong then why didn't the next president just reverse them? Hey I could be wrong too but my opinion is that banks got to have more than 50% of the blame.
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Mark_T
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Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 757
Location: Gilbert,AZ

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:27 am

Stoddo2k11 wrote:
I don't know how much politics and politicians played a role but it seems to me banks should bear the brunt of blame. Most all banks started issuing a loan that required no job, no credit history and no collateral - it only required the applicant to provide a credit rating number. Banks knew people couldn't repay these loans but they wanted to compete with other banks that did offer these loans. And lets not forget the ARM loans they pushed too.

I've also run into stories where Real Estate agents helped people give higher loans than they could afford and up-sell far more house than clients could afford to buy. It doesn't seem to me the Real Estate agents gave back huge commissions when people got foreclosed on.

Then of course there is society pressures of spending lots of money to furnish every single room of a large house.

There should be plenty of blame to go around but I don't know we're gonna start by blaming Clinton? I've listen to lots of programs about the banking crisis and the language becomes very complex when they start talking about strange insurance policies and credit default swaps and corporate paper, etc. By I could be wrong, its just seems Clinton is a prime scape goat. If his policies were so wrong then why didn't the next president just reverse them? Hey I could be wrong too but my opinion is that banks got to have more than 50% of the blame.


Most of the people involvled with Fannie and Freddie should be in prison.

The underwriting standards for the banks largely came from the US Gov. There were some attempts to regulate Fannie and Freddie in 2003 or 2004 by the Bush administration and these were all killed on congress. The Bush administration called them both a systemic risk!!!

John McCain also expressed concern.

Two of the biggest defenders of Fannie and Freddie in congress, the same two men that completely rewrote our entire financial system last year. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. What could possibly go wrong?

The banks really screwed up an already bad problem with their insane packaging off all those bad mortgages into some of the most complicated and convoluted garbage ever.

No doubt, the banks had a large role, but it started with the government.
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TRI
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Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Posts: 399
Location: Homestead, FL Zone 10

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:59 pm

Back in 1999 I prepared for a long term bear market in stocks due to over investment and too much industrial capacity. The economy is much worse today with much more debt, aging demographics, and insolvent zombie financial institutions.

1999 was also the year I planted my first citrus plants; three satsumas and one meyer lemon, and two of the four are still alive today. The two that did not survive died of root rot.


The economy is not likely to average more than 1 to 2 percent growth per year with much higher taxes coming, continued deleveraging, and weak consumer demand. Employers fear uncertainty about taxes and lack of demand and as a consequence decide not to expand and increase employment. This is the new normal than will continue for years and maybe even decades! Printing money and devaluing the dollar is NOT a solution to these problems! When the corrupt politicians are finished we will have much higher taxes, the dollar will have less purchasing power, and much more debt. They only like to talk about reducing the deficit but are unwilling to follow through. Deficits occur when the government spends too much, but I fear when they are forced to do something about the deficit they will increase taxes without cutting enough spending.
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mrtexas
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Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 1029
Location: 9a Missouri City,TX

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:13 pm

Stoddo2k11 wrote:
I don't know how much politics and politicians played a role but it seems to me banks should bear the brunt of blame. Most all banks started issuing a loan that required no job, no credit history and no collateral - it only required the applicant to provide a credit rating number. Banks knew people couldn't repay these loans but they wanted to compete with other banks that did offer these loans. And lets not forget the ARM loans they pushed too.

I've also run into stories where Real Estate agents helped people give higher loans than they could afford and up-sell far more house than clients could afford to buy. It doesn't seem to me the Real Estate agents gave back huge commissions when people got foreclosed on.

Then of course there is society pressures of spending lots of money to furnish every single room of a large house.

There should be plenty of blame to go around but I don't know we're gonna start by blaming Clinton? I've listen to lots of programs about the banking crisis and the language becomes very complex when they start talking about strange insurance policies and credit default swaps and corporate paper, etc. By I could be wrong, its just seems Clinton is a prime scape goat. If his policies were so wrong then why didn't the next president just reverse them? Hey I could be wrong too but my opinion is that banks got to have more than 50% of the blame.


The point is that banking is the number one most regulated business in the USA by the Federal government. A bank can't go to the bathroom without the US government permission. They couldn't reduce loan requirements without permission. All the blame is not on Clinton but he kicked off the breakdown in loan standards by changing the previous requirement of loan soundness like 20% down for a conventional loan to loan "fairness"=>everyone should qualify whether they had a down payment or not. Home loans became politicized and used to further social engineering.

The most troubling aspect of the whole problem is that the federal government is still ignoring the cause of the problem by allowing the nationalized Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to exist and Dodd/Frank did nothing to reform them.

There was also the collusion of Freddie and Fannie with the regulators to relax loan soundness to make more money by lobbying. The federal regulators should be independent and looking out for taxpayers, not enabling making more money for bankers. You are right, W did not help matters either.
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mgk65
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Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 84
Location: WV (Zone 6)

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:18 pm

Neither party is innocent.

Both have benefited from banks and financial institutions via their election donations.

Sometimes one president cannot fix the previous administration with a wave of his hand unless he has the full cooperation of the Senate and House.

Glass Stegal was repealed during the Clinton period. It was championed by Hank Paulson, then CEO of Goldman Sachs and then the Treasury Sec under Bush 42.

Frank Dodd is but a shadow of Glass Stegal.
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6659
Location: Colorado

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:40 pm

After 1,316 speeches to date, my question is...WHERE ARE THE JOBS ?? - Millet (520-)
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mgk65
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Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 84
Location: WV (Zone 6)

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:22 pm

Have you noticed that obama no longer says "I will not rest until ...."
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mrtexas
Citruholic
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Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 1029
Location: 9a Missouri City,TX

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:24 pm

mgk65 wrote:
Neither party is innocent.

Both have benefited from banks and financial institutions via their election donations.

Sometimes one president cannot fix the previous administration with a wave of his hand unless he has the full cooperation of the Senate and House.

Glass Stegal was repealed during the Clinton period. It was championed by Hank Paulson, then CEO of Goldman Sachs and then the Treasury Sec under Bush 42.

Frank Dodd is but a shadow of Glass Stegal.


The biggest problem was the collusion of Fannie Maes CEO Jim Johnson and Countrywide Angelo Mozila with their regulators in the Federal government to reduce bank reserve requirements(set asides to allow for loan losses and lower lending standards. They spent $$millions to influence and get the regulations changed with the excuse it would allow everyone to have a home. Dozens of prominent politicians of both parties got sweetheart home loans. I blame the Democrats for their ridiculous idea that everyone should buy a home and the Republicans for allowing the relaxation of sound lending practices to anything goes. I blame the current congress for not fixing the problem with Dodd/Frank. Freddie and Fannie, key players in this scandal, are untouched by Dodd/Frank. I blame the liberal media for misleading the public that it was private enterprise alone that made this happen. Couldn't have happened without government intervention.

I highly recommend the book tho, it explains it far better than I can.

All this pain to raise the home ownership % from low 60s% to 70%!
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