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Citrus Growers Forum
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What's happening to my Mexican Lime leaves?
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robby_hernz Citruholic
Joined: 27 May 2011 Posts: 46 Location: Tubac, AZ
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Posted: Thu 19 Apr, 2012 2:57 pm |
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Hello,
This is my first post, but I've spent I don't know how many hours lurking and learning as much as I can on citrus plants; I am very impressed and grateful for the knowledge of moderators and group members.
I have a young Mexican lime planted in an ARC container in a 3:1 CHC/coconut fibers mix from Crystal Company. I fertilize with Vigoro Citrus & Avocado 6-4-6 fertilizer. I live in Tubac, AZ so I bring pot indoors at night since temp drops below 55F. I do give it morning sun and put foil paper on half of the pot that faces the sun.
This was my fastest, healthiest growing citrus throwing out new branches and leaves and all of a sudden, leaves are getting brownish/white spots and they eventually curl and drop; It even dropped a brand new leaf that hadn't grown to full size yet.
I've posted a picture and I hope someone can help because I am too new to citrus and have no clue what's going on. (I hope I posted the image correctly)
Thank you!
Robert
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Laaz Site Owner
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 5678 Location: Dorchester County, South Carolina
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Posted: Thu 19 Apr, 2012 3:39 pm |
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Welcome to the forum. You want to upload your photos to something like http://imageshack.us/
Mexican lime can stay outside unless you have freezing weather. Mine stay out unless we go below 32f. _________________ Wal-Mart a great place to buy cheap plastic crap ! http://walmartwatch.com/ ...
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robby_hernz Citruholic
Joined: 27 May 2011 Posts: 46 Location: Tubac, AZ
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igor.fogarasi Moderator
Joined: 11 Apr 2011 Posts: 559 Location: Novi Sad, Serbia
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Posted: Thu 19 Apr, 2012 4:00 pm |
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welcome to the forum! i've already resized and reuploaded your photo...
Code: | [img]direct link, URL, to image file[/img] |
img tags are used to display image files in your posts.
take care,
igor |
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igor.fogarasi Moderator
Joined: 11 Apr 2011 Posts: 559 Location: Novi Sad, Serbia
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Posted: Thu 19 Apr, 2012 4:17 pm |
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it seems like you're giving it way too much sunlight. leaves look kind of burnt by the heat reflected of the foil...
avoid direct sunlight as much as possible, especially for young seedlings.
but overall, there's no need to panic, it will grow new leaves and get in shape soon. |
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robby_hernz Citruholic
Joined: 27 May 2011 Posts: 46 Location: Tubac, AZ
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Posted: Thu 19 Apr, 2012 5:18 pm |
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I will reduce the light exposure to 1 to 2 hours of morning sun. I sure hope that it survives; I see more and more leaves affected daily.
Thank you very much for your response. |
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RyanL Citruholic
Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Posts: 410 Location: Orange County, North Carolina. 7B
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Posted: Thu 19 Apr, 2012 7:30 pm |
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I disagree with the recommendation of sunlight reduction. I would advise just the opposite, provide that tree with much sun as you have. The reason for my recommendation is because I have a key lime cutting which started out looking exactly the same as yours. After its first year of growth, last year, only its second year alive it yielded over 100 fruit. you can do the same with your tree.
BTW, I would ditch the CHC, in favor of a more traditional citrus soil, just my opinion. Also, it looks like you have a slight nitrogen deficiency.
Two years ago my tree was the size of yours, I moved mine to a location where it received 12 hours of direct sun a day, fertilized it heavily and kept it watered, it must have flushed 10 times over the year, every time I looked at it, it was either flushing or just finishing a flush, the thing was amazing. Here is what it looked like at the end of that year. This is one years growth from a tiny cutting just like yours:
The following year this tree yielded over 100 fruit. Next year yours could too. |
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Mark_T Citruholic
Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 757 Location: Gilbert,AZ
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Posted: Thu 19 Apr, 2012 9:09 pm |
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I would leave it a shaded location outside and one that protects it from the wind.
It's not easy growing container citrus in Arizona in my opinion. The intense sun and heat combined with heavy dry winds and low humidity make it a challenge to have a healthy looking tree at times.
New growth dries out on my trees all the time because of the wind or it wilts from intense sun. I have to constantly move my trees around to protect them.
There might be some areas of Texas that are close our environment, but in general I think growing citrus in Arizona is different from virtually any other growing region in the USA. Maybe Turtleman can chime in on this. |
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Mark_T Citruholic
Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 757 Location: Gilbert,AZ
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Posted: Thu 19 Apr, 2012 9:42 pm |
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RyanL wrote: | I disagree with the recommendation of sunlight reduction. I would advise just the opposite, provide that tree with much sun as you have. The reason for my recommendation is because I have a key lime cutting which started out looking exactly the same as yours. After its first year of growth, last year, only its second year alive it yielded over 100 fruit. you can do the same with your tree.
BTW, I would ditch the CHC, in favor of a more traditional citrus soil, just my opinion. Also, it looks like you have a slight nitrogen deficiency.
Two years ago my tree was the size of yours, I moved mine to a location where it received 12 hours of direct sun a day, fertilized it heavily and kept it watered, it must have flushed 10 times over the year, every time I looked at it, it was either flushing or just finishing a flush, the thing was amazing. Here is what it looked like at the end of that year. This is one years growth from a tiny cutting just like yours:
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This is probably great advice, but Robert's tree is in Arizona. I don't think 12 hours of Arizona sun is good for anything. The native plants barely tolerate it. All of our in ground citrus trees have to have their trunks painted or they will die and the heavy dry winds are brutal on tender new growth. I had a Curry tree almost entirely defoliated from a wind storm. This is just my experience. The winds and dry air out here add another dimension beyond the heat. |
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6657 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Thu 19 Apr, 2012 11:24 pm |
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RyanL lives in North Carolina, and his advice about full sun is good advice for North Carolina. I would agree with Mark T about all day sun in the state of Arizona for such a small tree. . In Arizona, if you put your tree in the direct sun during the day BE SURE, that your CHC mix is kept very well watered, because your tree will be transpiring water through the stomata at a high rate, trying to keep cool. With a 3:1 CHC medium, you never need to worry about ever over watering your tree. In a 3:1 mix over watering is impossible. As hot as Arizona is during the summer a 3:2 medium would hold more moisture. I paint my small containers white in the summer and black in the winter. Root temperatures above 120F can kill the roots. I believe the problem is direct sun, and periods of low water. You can soak your entire container in a bucket of water to insure the medium's moisture level is at container capacity. I have soaked MANY MANY MANY at container, with CHC mediums, and bark mediums over the entire night --- never ever a problem. The roots of a flooded citrus tree will not begin to experience any problems for at least 48 hours (2 days) under water. Lastly, there is always a chance that such leaf damage is from high soluble salts (however in your case I don't think so). Anyway, it is always wise to flush your tree with clean clear water, every couple months. Welcome to the forum we are very glad to have you as a member. Good luck to you and your little tree. - Millet (276 BO-) |
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robby_hernz Citruholic
Joined: 27 May 2011 Posts: 46 Location: Tubac, AZ
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Posted: Fri 20 Apr, 2012 12:14 am |
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Thank you all for all your advice and suggestions. Although we don't get quite as hot as Gilbert, it is hot and very dry. As a matter of fact we had about a week of strong winds and that's when the problems started. Now I worry that it keeps progressing even though I'm not exposing it to strong light or heat.
I am going to add some earthworm castings to retain a little more moisture and reduce exposure to wind; then, I can only hope the little guy is strong and comes back to life.
Thanks again! |
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6657 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Fri 20 Apr, 2012 1:08 am |
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Robert, that is another good point. A tree in North Carolina, can receive sun the entire day, because NC is not as hot, and also NC's atmosphere provides the tree with high humidity. Arizona is not only hotter then North Carolina, but more importantly the atmosphere is very dry. Hot and dry, is a tough atmosphere on plants. Here in Colorado, I am fortunate to be able to set young trees in the sun all day, like Ryan, but still I protect the container's sides from over heating. - Millet (276 BO-) |
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bada bing
Joined: 08 Jan 2012 Posts: 19 Location: Tucson AZ - 8b~9a
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Posted: Fri 20 Apr, 2012 2:48 am |
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The leaves look very much like typical wind and sun burned leaves. I wouldn't worry too much about them.
What you want to provide is all day duration of somewhat filtered light. A very useful tool for establishing outdoor plants in Arizona is shade cloth. It not only reduces the intensity of the sunlight, it shields from drying winds, lowers the temperature of soil, leave and container surfaces, and raises the humidity a bit underneath. Aluminet is one of the more durable and effective types of shade cloth. http://www.gemplers.com/shop/shade-cloth-b
A temporary frame with 50% shade cloth is a godsend for acclimating indoor or nursery grown plants. If I could afford it and my neighborhood landscape committee would allow it, I would have a 20' high shade screen over my entire yard year round.
Another useful tool here in the desert is spray on anti-transpirants like wiltpruf http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=wiltpruf. Anti-transpirants are useful for both our extreme dry heat and also for a bit of frost protection during the inevitable desert winter cold snaps. So it's a product that does double duty.
It is a bit difficult being a gardener in Arizona. I'm a long long ways from being an expert. What I do know is that a neophyte Arizona gardener can get well meaning advice from very expert people on the internet that will not have the intended effect here. We are simultaneously hotter, brighter, dryer, windier and more alkaline than any other area with posters here.
Here in Tucson we are getting near the end of our spring flush season. Very soon our trees will sulk through the hot summer till the hopeful monsoon in August and the hopefully extended fall flush. If your trees are not well acclimated, it is time to consider protective measures because the summer is brutal here on non-natives like citrus. _________________
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Mark_T Citruholic
Joined: 30 Jun 2009 Posts: 757 Location: Gilbert,AZ
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Posted: Fri 20 Apr, 2012 5:09 am |
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bada bing wrote: | The leaves look very much like typical wind and sun burned leaves. I wouldn't worry too much about them.
What you want to provide is all day duration of somewhat filtered light. A very useful tool for establishing outdoor plants in Arizona is shade cloth. It not only reduces the intensity of the sunlight, it shields from drying winds, lowers the temperature of soil, leave and container surfaces, and raises the humidity a bit underneath. Aluminet is one of the more durable and effective types of shade cloth. http://www.gemplers.com/shop/shade-cloth-b
A temporary frame with 50% shade cloth is a godsend for acclimating indoor or nursery grown plants. If I could afford it and my neighborhood landscape committee would allow it, I would have a 20' high shade screen over my entire yard year round.
Another useful tool here in the desert is spray on anti-transpirants like wiltpruf http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=wiltpruf. Anti-transpirants are useful for both our extreme dry heat and also for a bit of frost protection during the inevitable desert winter cold snaps. So it's a product that does double duty.
It is a bit difficult being a gardener in Arizona. I'm a long long ways from being an expert. What I do know is that a neophyte Arizona gardener can get well meaning advice from very expert people on the internet that will not have the intended effect here. We are simultaneously hotter, brighter, dryer, windier and more alkaline than any other area with posters here.
Here in Tucson we are getting near the end of our spring flush season. Very soon our trees will sulk through the hot summer till the hopeful monsoon in August and the hopefully extended fall flush. If your trees are not well acclimated, it is time to consider protective measures because the summer is brutal here on non-natives like citrus. |
Great input here. I plan to invest heavily in shade cloth down the road, but I'm looking at buying a new house in the next year or so, as a result I am waiting.
Thanks for the link on the Wiltpruf. I will check that out and the shade cloth you link as well. I didn't even know a product like Wiltpruf existed. So you have good luck with this stuff on citrus? |
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bada bing
Joined: 08 Jan 2012 Posts: 19 Location: Tucson AZ - 8b~9a
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Posted: Fri 20 Apr, 2012 5:56 am |
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I *think* wiltpruf is moderately effective for summer windburn, especially during acclimating of new trees, and is also good for about 2-3 degrees extra protection against frost in our dry winter air. The reason I say *think* is because I have only used it for the last two winters and last summer and I applied it to all my trees so there is no "control" for my experiment. I've seen no detrimental effects and believe it is enough of a help to justify the purchase. It also definitely is a help when used on rooting cuttings of about any species in our dry air, I have done a "controlled" test of that.
I don't have a link, but I remember Turtleman (RSI growers) posting about a commercial nursery grade anti-transpirant with postive comments.
Sorry to wander off topic. _________________
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