Hello, my first post here! I was excited to find this forum as I am a citrus enthusiast with few people to talk with about it. I grew citrus and palms (I have a thing for palms as well) in my back yard when I lived in AZ, now I live in WV but I'm still a citrus grower at heart.

Anyway, I have a question that has been bothering me about navel oranges, all the literature says that navels are easy to peel, which is one several reasons for their widespread use for eating, the other reason is that they have great flavor and are seedless. However my experience with navels is that they can be either easy to peel or rather awful to peel.

When they are difficult to peel, the orange portion comes off with some difficulty and often leaves a lot of white portion behind, sometimes, the peel is so difficult to separate that the flesh comes off with it and you end up with a sticky mess. Is there a correlation with the ripeness and how well the peel comes off? I have noticed that they can have a great flavor and still be either easy or difficult to peel. Also, I am aware of the differences in peel that can occur due to climate i.e. Florida vs. California, I don't think that is the issue here as I have seen California navels be either easy or difficult. Thanks for hearing me out and for responses!

Xerarch, welcome to the Citrus Growers Forum. It is great having you as a member, Thanks for joining. If the Orange is grown along the coast where the humidity is high and the growing conditions are cool, then the fruit should be easier to peel. However, when the fruit is grown inland where the weather is hot and the climate is dry the fruit can be harder to peel. Also darker colored oranges can peel easier than lighter colored fruit. - Millet

Thanks for the reply, I believe that the vast majority of California's commercial citrus growing regions are located inland a ways from the coast, coastal conditions in California don't really get the heat required to get as good of formation of sugars. As for humidity, coastal areas are certainly more humid than inland areas as you say but are still somewhat arid compared to the truly humid regions of the south, this is party due to the fact that even though relative humidity values might appear high, the dew points (a more absolute measure of quantity of water vapor in the air, not a "relative" value) are not very high.

Also, I picked navel oranges many times while living in AZ where it is very hot and dry, the peels came off easily and the flesh was sweet and juicy. Keep the ideas coming! Are there many commercial growers on this site by chance?

Xwearch, your response does not fit with the cultivation of Navel oranges. The most market effect caused primarily by differences in atmospheric humidity to be found in citrus is in connection with a severe fruit drop, known as June Drop, that occurs commonly following warm dry periods. In the hotter and dryer section of both California and Arizona this drop is so heavy every year, especially with navel orange varieties, that the yield is commonly greatly reduced, sometimes so much so that production is rendered unprofitable. Other orange varieties and grapefruits are also affected but not so seriously as Washington navels. The typical June drop, is largely caused by the strain on the tree resulting from low humidity, which leads to excessive transpiration and loss of water. This drop, which is severe in desert sections lessens gradually as the humidity increases and the temperature decreases in approaching the coast. Navel varieties are mainly unsuccessful in the Coachella and Imerial valleys of California and in Arizona, largely because of the very light yields. The failure of the Washington Navel in Florida, where it is a very light yielder, is in part due to the drought that normally occurs in that state in April and May, prior to the beginning of the summer rainy season. Citrus Industry. Anyway I hope you receive an answer to your question that you find more fiting. The best. - Millet

Millet, you're right about June drop, yields in Arizona on navel orange are smaller than in California making navels a poor choice for a commercial crop in AZ, however, fruit quality is still excellent there, even on navels, it's just that there are fewer oranges per tree. My question is regarding the peel, I picked and peeled many oranges there and did not seem to have difficulty with the peel.

Xwearch, Millet is correct with regard to the Navel orange. They do not do very well in our hotter, drier inland areas of California. They are most definitely better suited to the cooler, moister coastal areas. And, if you're within 5 miles of the coast, our humidity is surprisingly high. Not unusual to have humidity in the 60% range on a regular basis, in the 90 percentage in the mornings. Just that we are very temperate, so it doesn't feel as humid as, say, Florida. And of course, not as consistently humid as Florida, but I would not say our coastal areas are "arid". Inland California, yes. But not our coast areas. Navel oranges are a bit picky, and not a particularly vigorous cultivar. To quote UC Riverside Citrus Variety Collection:

Quote:

Sensitive to heat and aridity during bloom and fruit-setting, and hence restricted in range of climatic adaptation.

The Washington Navel was grown extensively in Orange County as well as the coastal areas of San Diego, Los Angeles and Ventura counties in the '30's through the '80's. As the cost of water became exorbitantly expensive, growers in these regions were forced to move their commercial groves to Central California. But, in growing up, I can remember acres and acres and acres of Washington Navel oranges in Orange County, and in all the other areas I've mentioned. You could drive for miles and miles and see nothing but beautiful navel oranges.

Guys, there is so disagreement here about the fact that they are "Sensitive to heat and aridity during bloom and fruit-setting" I am very aware of this, after bloom and fruit-setting, the remaining fruit still produce excellent quality. That is my personal observation and I have spoken with professional growers about it.

Let's not lose sight of the original question regarding the peel, Millet has suggested that inland grown navels are harder to peel than coastal ones. I appreciate that input but since my personal observations don't seem to be in harmony with that statement, I would like to hear some other possible explanations. Thanks

Ok, I just found this elsewhere on this site that can help us out in a post titled
"Effects of Climate on Citruses" here is an excerpt

"Other fruit characters materially affected by atmospheric humidity during the growing season include rind surface, thickness, texture and adherence , texture of the flesh (juice vesicles and carpellary membranes), and juice content. Thus, in semitropical regions such as Florida, the rind is smoother, thinner, softer, and more tightly adherent, the flesh and carpellary membranes are tenderer, and the juice content is higher than in such subtropical regions as California."

I have read similar description in many places, I was aware of the climate effects on rind thickness, color, texture etc. the new thing that stood out in this piece was the mention of ADHERENCE. This was unknown to me and describes my frustration with peeling. It seems that adherence is to be expected in humid climates, not arid ones. This validates my observation that oranges in AZ and other dry areas are not difficult to peel. This also validates Milliet's and Hoosierquilt's statements that the California coast is humid enough to make a difference with the peel when I assumed that because it is still not as humid as Florida that is would not make such a difference.

So, in answer to my question about the fact that some California navels are easy to peel while some aren't seems to be that easy peel=arid region, difficult adhering peel=more humid conditions.

Thanks for joining in, hope we all learned something!

You aren't imagining things Xerarch, the oranges you were probably familiar with are easy to peel in Phoenix. They would most probably have been Parent Washington Navels that still inhabit the valley. And they certainly ARE easy to peel.

Ease of peel can relate to ripeness and I suppose other environmental conditions, but I suspect it is more often a cultivar issue. Greenfield's, who still supplies the valley with citrus trees has a list of what they sell for comparison---though they list "ease of peeling" as excellent for all but one navel cultivar.

If your Phoenix property had flood irrigation that may have also have something to do with the navel's correctly expressing the trait that made Parent Washington's such a hit. Plus it was likely on SSO rootstock.