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lifespeed Citruholic
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 31 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Mon 04 Jun, 2007 11:24 pm |
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I'm trying to figure out if I am doing something wrong for my orange tree in San Jose, CA. It had much more foliage after a moderate freeze this january when I planted it. It is a Sanguinella blood orange, standard, from a local nursery.
For a couple months it looked great with lots of leaves, despite some minor frost damage. It has now lost considerable foliage and new growth seems to have stopped. I water it twice a week deeply, and fertilized it in February and March, each time about a cup of citrus fertilizer.
I don't think I'm watering it too much, because it starts to droop if I don't water twice per week. The soil is deep adobe clay.
Any ideas?
- Lifespeed
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JoeReal Site Admin
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 4726 Location: Davis, California
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Posted: Mon 04 Jun, 2007 11:38 pm |
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Lifespeed, what's the formulation of your fertilizer? It might be too much for the tree.
For your soil, it would really help if you have installed drains and aerators. The problem has nothing to do with the cultivar type. |
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lifespeed Citruholic
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 31 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 12:22 am |
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JoeReal wrote: | Lifespeed, what's the formulation of your fertilizer? It might be too much for the tree.
For your soil, it would really help if you have installed drains and aerators. The problem has nothing to do with the cultivar type. |
The fertilizer is 12-5-8. The only thing I did for aeration was plant the tree in potting soil, rather than clay. This is only a 2.5' cylinder, but the roots are not beyond that yet. I do plan to do some grading that will leave the tree at a higher elevation than the rest of the yard to encourage rainwater runoff. The tree is already somewhat higher than the surrounding grade, I just plan to improve on this.
I should mention I have a 12 year old Meyer lemon that is doing well, although it received less fertilizer relative to it's larger size, about 4 cups.
There are lots of happy citrus trees growing in this soil in my neighborhood. I am happy to do whatever is reasonable to improve the situation, but the reality is the tree will live in clay. _________________ Lifespeed |
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harveyc Citruholic
Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 372 Location: Sacramento Delta USDA Zone 9
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Posted: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 12:38 am |
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How much direct sun does your tree get? Citrus generally want full sun. How much water are you giving your tree when you water it? With your climate, espescially this year so far, I would not think you would have to irrigate that often. I wonder if you are not wetting the soil deep enough. _________________ Harvey |
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lifespeed Citruholic
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 31 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 12:44 am |
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harveyc wrote: | How much direct sun does your tree get? Citrus generally want full sun. How much water are you giving your tree when you water it? With your climate, espescially this year so far, I would not think you would have to irrigate that often. I wonder if you are not wetting the soil deep enough. |
Isleton is a cool place! I like to waterski on the delta, then pick up some fruit for the drive home.
I let the hose trickle for 3 - 4 hours, should be tens of gallons but perhaps you are right. It seems often to water, but the tree droops if I don't. The tree has only been in my yard for 6 months, although I estimate it is close to 4 years old.
It gets full sun 11 hours a day. _________________ Lifespeed |
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SonomaCitrus Citruholic
Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 65 Location: Santa Rosa, CA
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Posted: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 4:10 am |
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It could be the droop is symptomatic of root damage from having been transplanted followed by excessive watering. I'd cutback to watering about once a week. You need to let the root system heal and catch up with the foliage. Lack of foliage development at this point can be a good thing. Citrus cycle between foliage growth and root development. Right now the tree needs root system development. Your problems are compounded by the potting soil entombed in the clay. You may have created a water bucket that is slowly drowning the roots. The tree may be better off planted directly into the clay.
Kent |
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Skeeter Moderator
Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 2218 Location: Pensacola, FL zone 9
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Posted: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 6:50 am |
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I think Kent is probably right. The tree droops because so much of the root system has been destroyed by overwatering. Especially for inground citrus, you do not need to water unless the soil is dry at least 2 to 3 inches deep. Once established you should not need to water unless you are in a sustained drought. _________________ Skeet
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6657 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 1:50 pm |
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A fertilizer formula such as 6-6-6 or 8-8-8 is most always used when feeding such a young tree. A fertilizer formula with a nitrogen content of 10 percent or higher should never be used on young newly plant trees. After saying all this, the fertilizer application is probably not the tree's problem. You should not have added any amendments to the planting hole when you planted the tree. Only the actual soil is used to back fill a hole when a citrus is planted. Also when you planted the tree did you dig a large hole in relation to the size of the root ball, thinking you were doing the root system a favor? By digging an oversized hole and adding additives such as peat moss, potting soil and such, you create a "lake" that fills up every time you water the tree, causing the root rot, which unfortunately is one of the most common causes of damage or death to new trees. - Millet |
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lifespeed Citruholic
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 31 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Fri 17 Aug, 2007 7:02 pm |
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I am sorry to report the tree is not doing much better. Alot has happened since I posted in June: The clay soil was amended with two dump-truck loads of sand, redwood compost and chicken manure in the entire back yard and rototilled to a depth of at least 1'. A lawn was planted. Heavy watering of the tree by hose was discontinued, however the new lawn planting caused some watering of the tree to continue.
Now that the lawn is established, I have eliminated watering within a 4' radius around the tree (fortunately the programmable Accurain sprinklers accomodate this). I noted that the soil around the tree dried out and cracked, as is typical even for amended clay soil.
Is this what I should be doing in an attempt to revive my sick tree? Letting it dry out for 2 - 3 weeks between waterings? How much water should I give it? _________________ Lifespeed |
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Skeeter Moderator
Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 2218 Location: Pensacola, FL zone 9
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Posted: Sun 19 Aug, 2007 12:06 am |
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The dry conditions are much better for the tree than the overwatering. The fact that you put potting soil in the hole with a clay based soil also contributed to the problem (you created a clay pot with no drain holes). The improved drainage for the soil around the tree may help some (you reduced the depth of the clay pot some).
I don't know it I would recommend anything else at this point. No further deterioration is a good sign, recovery will take some time.
The best indication of when to water, is to check the soil at least 3 inches down, if there is any sign of moisture, don't water--- there will be even more water further down. _________________ Skeet
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lifespeed Citruholic
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 31 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Wed 19 Jan, 2011 4:59 am |
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Well, this tree really was a slow starter. It still is not much bigger than when it was first planted almost 4 years ago. To be fair, it did suffer through a nasty freeze at the nursery right before I got it.
Been fighting citrus leaf miner with Spinosad all last year.
It now has ten medium-sized (for sanguinelli) oranges on it that are coloring nicely. Probably not more than a month to go 'til harvest. I can't wait . . . _________________ Lifespeed |
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lifespeed Citruholic
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 31 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Sun 24 Feb, 2013 6:26 pm |
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So here is my Sanguinelli blood orange, 6 years after being planted in the backyard. It gets sun 80% of the day. I think in late February in N. California the fruit should be ripe by now. But it is still pretty firm, and quite tart. Color of the peel and flesh is good, however.
Do citrus take a long time to mature enough to ripen/sweeten the fruit?
_________________ Lifespeed |
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Laaz Site Owner
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 5664 Location: Dorchester County, South Carolina
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Posted: Sun 24 Feb, 2013 7:08 pm |
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Interesting. My variegated blood orange has a yellow peel with a light red stripe here & there. They are very sweet right now. Sorry for the poor photo, but I can't find my good camera at the moment.
_________________ Wal-Mart a great place to buy cheap plastic crap ! http://walmartwatch.com/ ...
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hoosierquilt Site Admin
Joined: 25 Oct 2010 Posts: 970 Location: Vista, California USA
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Posted: Mon 25 Feb, 2013 12:59 am |
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Lifespeed, my Sanguinelli tends to not sweeten up until late March. I discovered this only by accident last year, leaving one fruit on that I missed. It was much better at the end of March. My Moro's and Tarocco's are ripe now, but I am now leaving my Sanguinelli fruit on until end of March. _________________ Patty S.
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lifespeed Citruholic
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 31 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Mon 25 Feb, 2013 2:56 pm |
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hoosierquilt wrote: | Lifespeed, my Sanguinelli tends to not sweeten up until late March. I discovered this only by accident last year, leaving one fruit on that I missed. It was much better at the end of March. My Moro's and Tarocco's are ripe now, but I am now leaving my Sanguinelli fruit on until end of March. |
And you are at least 350 miles further south than I! I will keep this in mind, and try testing another orange one month from now. I know if I leave them on the tree too long they dry out and don't taste good either.
Laaz, your oranges in SC look good. I think your climate is very different than in San Jose, CA, so ripening times are likely different as well. _________________ Lifespeed |
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