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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Posted: Thu 10 Jan, 2008 3:45 am |
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sunrisecowboy wrote: | Has anyone tried pure perlite along with CHC. I use it to start cuttings. It works really well for that. |
Haa, we posted the same question almost at the exact same time. You beat to the enter button though.
Phillip |
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sunrisecowboy Citruholic
Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 85 Location: Denver, Colorado
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Posted: Thu 10 Jan, 2008 4:00 am |
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Sponge rock? Not sure what that is, where do you get it? |
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A.T. Hagan Moderator
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 898 Location: Gainesville, Florida, United States, Earth - Sol III
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Posted: Thu 10 Jan, 2008 11:17 am |
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My experience with CHCs and coir thus far have been that I don't see any useful role for the perlite to play. The coconut media is already very light and porous. A little too light in fact if you have a tall tree. I have to stake my Key lime pots in the warm season because the media in the pot doesn't weigh enough to keep the pot from blowing over in the wind.
.....Alan. |
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Millet Citruholic
Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 6656 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Thu 10 Jan, 2008 11:33 am |
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I have never used a CHC/perlite blend, so I can only make assumptions. My guess is that the combination could work OK. However, two items of concern to me would be, (1). a 50/50 CHC perlite blend would constantly create a huge mess, and (2) I think the perlite would begin separating and would rise (float) to the upper portion of the container with each irrigation. - Millet |
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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Posted: Thu 10 Jan, 2008 12:06 pm |
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sunrisecowboy wrote: | Sponge rock? Not sure what that is, where do you get it? |
Sponge rock is supposedly another name for Perlite. I had never heard of it either, but after doing a web search they said it was the same. From the hits that I got on the search engine, it appears that orchid growers seem to refer to perlite as sponge rock while everyone else just says perlite. Citrus growers should come up with a diffent name just to be different. How about "blanco siliconus"?
As far as where I got it, I found it at: http://www.usorchidsupplies.com/prod2.htm
Phillip |
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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Posted: Thu 10 Jan, 2008 12:25 pm |
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This may be a dumb question, but does Perlite have any water holding capabilities? If not, I would think this would be another reason to go with the CHC.
Phillip |
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Skeeter Moderator
Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 2218 Location: Pensacola, FL zone 9
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Posted: Thu 10 Jan, 2008 5:02 pm |
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I'm sure perlite has water holding capacity-- I don't know how it compares to CHC, but you can measure it by weighing some before and after wetting. _________________ Skeet
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A.T. Hagan Moderator
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 898 Location: Gainesville, Florida, United States, Earth - Sol III
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Posted: Thu 10 Jan, 2008 6:50 pm |
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http://www.hort.cornell.edu/department/faculty/good/growon/media/inorg.html
Perlite has a very low cation exchange capacity, low water-holding capacity (19%), and neutral pH. The closed-cell composition of perlite contributes to its compaction resistance, enhances media drainage, and heightens the aeration porosity of peat-based media (Bilderback 1982). Because perlite contains only minute amounts of plant nutrients, liquid feeding is a practical mode of fertilization. Be aware of possible aluminum toxicity in acidic media (pH < 5).
.....Alan. |
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laidbackdood Citruholic
Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 180 Location: Perth.Western Australia.
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Posted: Thu 10 Jan, 2008 10:06 pm |
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Interesting discusion.I read somewhere the other day of them growing citrus in Isreal in pure perlite in huge see through containers outside shopping malls! Denser grade towards the bottom and fine in the growing zone,with stones/bark on top.They where impressive,in clear plastic containers.I would imagine it gets pretty hot there,so they must hold some moisture.I thought citrus didnt need much moisture anyway.I also read citrus can survive on low levels of water.
I have been using 50/50 potting soil and perlite and its been great.There is a lot of rain here and our temps dont go over 25c. I read that if citrus roots remain saturated for more than 48hrs then damage starts to occur.Well,this mix dries out nicely and im not killing anymore trees from lack of oxygen to the roots.I also read that insects hate perlite as well,so thats a bonus.
However,after millets experiment i might well give the coir/chc
a go.Could i use gypsum instead of dolomite lime?we dont have stem over in new zealand either.Cheers |
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Junglekeeper Citruholic
Joined: 19 Nov 2005 Posts: 290 Location: Vancouver BC Canada
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Posted: Fri 11 Jan, 2008 12:07 am |
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I find perlite to be problematic if used in quantity. Over time it tends to percolate to the top after repeated watering of the medium because of its light weight combined with its air holding capacity. Would larger size perlite be any better (or worse)? _________________ Indoor Grower |
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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Posted: Fri 11 Jan, 2008 3:01 am |
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A.T. Hagan wrote: | http://www.hort.cornell.edu/department/faculty/good/growon/media/inorg.html
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Good link. At the bottom of the Perlite discussion at the site, they also say:
"Coarse perlite is characterized by approximately 70% total porosity, 60% of which is aeration porosity. Perlite can retain two to four times its dry weight in water, which is much greater than that of sand and polystyrene, yet much less than the water-holding capacity of peat and vermiculite." It's dry weight isn't a whole lot, but it sounds like it retains some water. I wonder how it stacks up to CHCs. It sounds like CHC is still the better bedding material, but cost wise, my bag of Perlite was more than 1/2 the cost of CHC (the cost of the 4 cubic feet the vendor accidently sent to me was $16 whereas the CHC bale was $38 ). A Perlite mix may be the poor man's material of choice since it's cheaper. It's also readily available whereas the nurseries I've tried around here have never heard of Coconut Husk Chips. I still wonder about the floatation issue after repeated watering.
Phillip |
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laidbackdood Citruholic
Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 180 Location: Perth.Western Australia.
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Posted: Sat 12 Jan, 2008 9:34 am |
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I havent noticed coming to the top of my mixes but i do water gently with a watering can.Not all at once,just little bursts and let it drain.Once you have watered the top,it tends to compact a bit and then repeat until draining.4 or 5 waters in one go.Hope that helps. |
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sunrisecowboy Citruholic
Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 85 Location: Denver, Colorado
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Posted: Sun 13 Jan, 2008 2:05 am |
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Junglekeeper I was thinking of about 10 -20 % perlite. Laidbackdood have you tried watering from the bottom. Put the pot in bucket of water and after it soaks the medium remove it from the watering bucket and fill the top of your plant pot with water to flush any undesireable buildup out. Bottom watering only works if you are not trying to pickup a 15 -25 gallon pot. |
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Junglekeeper Citruholic
Joined: 19 Nov 2005 Posts: 290 Location: Vancouver BC Canada
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Posted: Mon 14 Jan, 2008 1:15 am |
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sunrisecowboy wrote: | Junglekeeper I was thinking of about 10 -20 % perlite. | If you're asking me if that's too much I'd say no. It may be too soon to tell but it seems it's not as much an issue when bark nuggets are added to the mix. The bark breaks up the water stream so the soil doesn't get churned. Also, the water doesn't pool up because of the faster drainage so the perlite doesn't float to the top as readily. _________________ Indoor Grower |
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dauben Citruholic
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 963 Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A
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Posted: Tue 15 Jan, 2008 2:51 am |
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Junglekeeper wrote: | sunrisecowboy wrote: | Junglekeeper I was thinking of about 10 -20 % perlite. | If you're asking me if that's too much I'd say no. It may be too soon to tell but it seems it's not as much an issue when bark nuggets are added to the mix. The bark breaks up the water stream so the soil doesn't get churned. Also, the water doesn't pool up because of the faster drainage so the perlite doesn't float to the top as readily. |
I'm curious as to what the buoyancy of perlite, CHC, and bark nuggets is. The more I think about it, I would think all are buoyant. The issue may not be an issue of perlite floating to the top, but an issue of the media separating into their own distinct layers with heavy watering. When people to the ion exchange on CHC, does it sink or float?
Phillip |
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