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Cutting trees back to conserve water?

 
Citrus Growers Forum Index du Forum -> In ground citrus
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dauben
Citruholic
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Mon 13 Jul, 2009 11:46 am

Hello all. I'm in the process of installing irrigation in the citrus groves in my spare time, but with the heat, I'm afraid I might not be installing it fast enough. Does anyone know if I cut the trees back, will that cut down on the amount of water needed? The trees are established (20+ years old) and are doing well despite not being watered, but I'd like to keep them alive until I get a chance to top work and convert them over to another cultivar.

Thanks,
Phillip
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Skeeter
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 2218
Location: Pensacola, FL zone 9

Posted: Mon 13 Jul, 2009 5:51 pm

Transpiration is a major use of water by plants, so by cutting back on the leaves available for transpiration it would have to reduce water use. It might help to coat the cut ends of limbs with wax or parafilm to make sure it is not loosing water thru the cut end of the limb.

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Skeet
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Millet
Citruholic
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Mon 13 Jul, 2009 7:38 pm

Trees evaporate water through the openings in their leaves in the process of transpiration, and they tend to transpire more with increased temperatures, and sunlight intensity. Many factors influence transpiration rates, including leaf shape, leaf size, stomata size, and waxiness of the leaf surface. Trees transpire vast quantities of water - only one percent of all water a plant absorbs is used in photosynthesis; the other 99 percent is lost through the leaves. Therefore, by reducing the volume of the leaf surface, you also GREATLY reduce the volume of water required by the tree. I would not apply anything at all to the cut surfaces. I would leave them alone and let them seal themselves naturally. By using the search function you will be able to find several posting by Dr. Manners where he advises that it is best not to apply anything to a cut end. Citrus are very capable of withstanding a hard pruning, with very little, or no long term damage. Good luck. - Millet (1,283-)
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dauben
Citruholic
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Mon 13 Jul, 2009 9:15 pm

Perfect, thanks gentlemen. I had suspected as much, but wanted to get an expert opinion. Now I just need to work on getting a chipper/shredder to handle the cut branches. It may be questionable whether it would take more time to cut the trees or install irrigation. Maybe a combination of both until I can do something with the trees. My well pump costs are killing me as it is.

Phillip
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Mon 13 Jul, 2009 10:51 pm

Philip, why do you have a high cost to operate your well? I have two wells........ 1.) a residential well at 240 feet deep which supplies water to the house and two barns. 2). a larger volume irrigation well at 980 feet deep for crops. The cost of running them does not amount to much of anything. California must have much higher electric charges. - Millet (1,283-)
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dauben
Citruholic
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Tue 14 Jul, 2009 2:48 am

Millet wrote:
Philip, why do you have a high cost to operate your well? I have two wells........ 1.) a residential well at 240 feet deep which supplies water to the house and two barns. 2). a larger volume irrigation well at 980 feet deep for crops. The cost of running them does not amount to much of anything. California must have much higher electric charges. - Millet (1,283-)


To be honest, I'm speculating that it's the well that drove my costs up. I don't know for certain, but my electric charges doubled once I started irrigating the sod on my lawn so I'm assuming it was the well. I also started using the hot tub around the same time as a play pool for the kids but only keep the temperature at 80 degrees. I didn't think that would have caused the increase, but who knows. Maybe it's the combination of both.

We do have a tiered rate structure here that varies with how much power you use. My calc comes up with $0.23 per kilowatt-hour after all fees are tacked on. I have no doubt that the environmental and emissions rules in California make it more expensive here. When I was younger, I remembr $0.10 per kw-hr was the rule of thumb.

Phillip
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pagnr
Citrus Guru
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Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 407
Location: Australia

Posted: Tue 14 Jul, 2009 9:39 am

Depending how much you cut them back, you might want to whitewash the newly exposed trunk and limbs, especially if you are already into hot weather over there. In fact if you suddenly expose major areas to direct sun after pruning, you could do some damage. Also if you plan to topwork in the future, it may be wise to do any pruning higher up than your intended grafting height. This will give you some leeway when cutting the limbs to graft later on.
You may like to look at
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/99273/managing-citrus-orchards-with-less-water.pdf
Which is a NSW primefacts factsheet on drought measures.
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Skeeter
Moderator
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 2218
Location: Pensacola, FL zone 9

Posted: Tue 14 Jul, 2009 10:31 am

One other point to consider, once you cut the limbs it will be at least a month before the bark will slip again.

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Skeet
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dauben
Citruholic
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Wed 15 Jul, 2009 11:52 am

Skeeter wrote:
One other point to consider, once you cut the limbs it will be at least a month before the bark will slip again.


Thanks Skeet. At this point I have more trees that I know what to do with. I'm just looking to keep them alive and reduce watering. Maybe there will be new growth after cutting them that would be easier to bud/graft onto??

Phillip
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dauben
Citruholic
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Wed 15 Jul, 2009 11:53 am

pagnr wrote:

You may like to google www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/managing-citrus-orchards-with-less-water-pdf
Which is a NSW primefacts factsheet on drought measures.
Sorry, but I havent worked out how to post a web address yet.


Thanks Pagnr. I found the PDF and bookmarked it.

Phillip
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dauben
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 2:47 am

pagnr wrote:
Depending how much you cut them back, you might want to whitewash the newly exposed trunk and limbs.


I ended up doing this and whitewashing the trunks of about 20 trees tonight. As I was lying under a tree, I got to thinking that this would be the perfect practical joke if it turned out that there was no benefit of whitewashing the trees and you convinced someone to paint all of their trees for no reason. Better yet, instead of white, we could start a thread about how painting your trees purple causes them to grow faster and need less fertilizer. 'That'd be a mighty pretty sight . . . a whole citrus grove of purple trees. . . . . Smile

Anyway, I ended up using a 50/50 mix of white vinyl paint mixed with water. It turns out that I had a can of white latex paint just sitting in the garage.

Phillip
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pagnr
Citrus Guru
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Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 407
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 11:59 am

There is a good photo essay about various drought responses in citrus orchards at Citrus Drought Workshop
Additional_tree_management_strategies_v7.pdf(application/pdfObject)


http://www.pir.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/55118/Addtional_tree_management_strategies_v7.pdf
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dauben
Citruholic
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 12:06 pm

pagnr wrote:
There is a good photo essay about various drought responses in citrus orchards at Citrus Drought Workshop
Additional_tree_management_strategies_v7.pdf(application/pdfObject)


http://www.pir.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/55118/Addtional_tree_management_strategies_v7.pdf


Thanks. Page 2 of the PDF is what happened to my grove last year (Natural Tree Dehydration) while the house was in foreclosure. Most of the trees came back after the spring rains, but between our fire of 2007 and lack of water in 2008, some trees didn't make it.

Phillip
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