I was trying the baggie method of germination.. i got freaked out and threw out the seeds bag unopened..
I saw something that looked like this..
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/images/1502415564 only about 1/16th to 1/8th" long.. at first look i thought it was just part of a gray hair or some water or some thing.. but it moved and that is when i got freaked out...
I'm worried that what ever it is it was same soil stock that i am using for the rest of my citrus plants.. I had looked and looked for the soil critter that comes up when ever i water.. and well.. it looks kinda like this..
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/images/606262262 only with legs.. about the size of a grain of sand.. you realy don't see them unless they move.. they are clear.. and i only see them after i have watered.. I was thinking they would be some kind of spider mite.. but no webbing.. and they stay in the soil. i see no flying..they run all over the soil.. maybe i'm jumping the gun thinkin i am doomed with Nematodes.. but i have looked at dang near every bug i have been able to find online and these come the closest.. i never thought that they might berelated.. I have sprayed the soil with safer soap a number of times.. doesn't seem to do any good...

when i had trouble with George before his roots looked about like this.. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/images/203330445 Bout this time i'm getting even more freaked... i remeber funny little bubbles in the roots.. soo i just pulled him up because he is again showing same symptoms... hmmm.. his roots look just fine..
Well.. I have repotted every last thing i have.. soaked the roots for half hr in bleach water (1bleach-5water) and scrubbed every thing i use with bleach..
not sure what those bugs were..
From every thing i've read if they are Nematodes my plants are doomed.. but if not.. well.. i guess i have some very clean plants and very clean pots,,, equipment etc.. i was very careful to not mix new soil mix any where around old soil mix..
I think that the little bugs came from the sand i mixed in.. i set some of the sand aside and have seen same bugs there.. I was going to use the sand for my hermit crabs but i gave away the hermit crabs and dumped the sand out back behind the shed.. No sand in my new mix...
I guess only time will tell.. I tried a number of times to get a picture of the buggies on the soil after watering.. but they are smaller than a grain of sand!! and the little buggers won't hold still for a picture.. Oh well.. hopefully they are ALL gone now... WHAT EVER THEY ARE>>
I got the pictures from edis web site.. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/NG006 the pictures are all Nematodes.. Not sure that is what i have.... but those are the closest i've seen to what I have seen on my plants..
Gina *BabyBlue*

Gina, you can sterilize your soil by baking it. Take the soil off your plants & put it in a big old roasting pan & bake at 375* (I go up to 400) for about 60 minutes. Let it cool (of course ) & then repot. Nothing will live thru that.
BTW...make sure you won't have company for the rest of day cuz your house will stink!!!!
Before you repot, put the plant roots in the bleach water & that will kill off whatever is on them. I've done this & it worked fine.....just makes the house STINK for the day LOL. No kidding...this works!
I would then water w/ little epsom salts, and next watering use lite fert if any (any comments there are welcomed).
I hate bugs in soil too!
BTW...found a live Lady Bug in my sunroom. Must be eating something to survive this long HUH? I wrote on the other 'ROMPER ROOM' forum few months ago that I found I had a bad case of fungus gnats in my soil. Look like tiny fruit flies crawling in & out of soil.
I didn't know what they were till someone responded to my post. I wonder if the lady bug has anything to do with keeping down the population????
Can Ldy bugs eat fungus gnats?
I baked the soil & the Ldy bug took care of the rest I guess.
Patty
Hope your'e all having a nice winter...been warm around here lately, but not enough sun. When there's sun - there's cold. When cloudy--it's warm.
Patty

Patty,
Thanks for the idea on baking the soil.. I just went and got fresh stuff.. the old stuff went out.. Hope they don't come back.. but if I have buggy troubles again I'll sure think about that.. I have gone through a gallon and a half of bleach, soaking the roots and equipment and pretty much every little thing in my back room where all my trees are.. Man but my hands are RAW!! I used the bleach at a 1-5 ratio. hope that is strong enough.
I am confused as to the cause of Georges sudden leaf drop.. Nola dropped a bunch of her leaves too.. yellow veins on some... Pitole still on the branch.. but all the roots that I looked at looked very healthy. Nothing about their care had changed.. In fact.. my seedling Clementine has been growing like mad.. 3/4 of inch per day!!! for past week or two.. about same time the Kumquats started leaf drop.. a few leaves I can understand... but the # of drop per day was increasing.. and the baby growth just turned brown and fell off.. no.. Kitty had nothing to do with it this time.. that I am very sure of.. I checked the PH of the soil and it was around 6.0 ish.. so that was fine..
I had fungus gnats a bit last fall and had lady bug bout same time... I put no pest fly strips around my citrus and sprayed with safer soap a couple of times the gnats didn't last long.. oh. the lady bug.. I relocated before spraying..
I have a bit of STEM I will give everyone next time I water.. All of the other trees look healthy... Just the two Kumquats are stressing out.. Not sure what is going on with them... at least I'm fairly sure I got rid of those bugs.. what ever they are.. I skipped the sand in my latest soil mix.. but upped the perilite a bit.. I am fairly sure that the sand was the source of the bugs...
Weather here has been fairly nice.. sunny most days and chilly but not cold.. but then I think ppl down in Florida would probably complain this was cold.. LOL

Gina *BabyBlue*

Well I must say, I found this Topic quite interesting.....

I rarely sterilize soil, but when I do need some I do it outside on the charcoal grill. No smell inside. I don't even have a gas grill: I use downed twigs or branches or commercial charcoal or usually both, the twigs for rapid heat and the charcoal for prolonged heat. I first put a inch or two of water in the bottom of an old BIG pot to prevent charring and to make steam to carry the heat upward better through the soil. And I have a top on the pot.

The US Department of State's interesting manual of tropical horticulture recommends a similar method using a 55 gallon open-top drum. This is set on some bricks or above a small trench to allow a wood fire beneath it. They say to put a sweet potato buried a little way down: when it's done, the soil is completely sterile. I generally don't cook soil quite that long. I'd like to find, say, a 20 gal. drum for this, as I soon will want to start reusing some special good soil. Previously, all "used" soil went to vegetable pots or compost pile and thence as potting soil for pawpaws, which don't seem to mind at all.

Rather than starting a new topic....

I must have messed up some how. two days after beaching the roots almost everyone of the trees has limp leaves.. some leaves are dried out.. Majority have just fallen off...
I have gone over what all I did amounts, time, etc.. I was off some where I guess.. Maybe I didn't rinse them as well as I thought I had.. I know that the two larger Kumquats have little to no leaves..
I checked the roots on the Largest Kumquat again last night and they looked fine. but the top looks very very bad... Only a few branches that haven't turned black and shriveled up.
The Latest T-bud I did seems un affected..
here is a picture of the t-bud


Here is the rest of the trees..

another view of trees..


Anyway.. that is the latest..

Gina *BabyBlue*

Gina, maybe try flushing them with clear water. Seems like almost an hour of soaking in bleach water might be too long? At least, I think you said you soaked them for a hour. I hope you can save them.
Don't kill them with kindness.

Looks like Laaz got some more cool emoticons!

I had something similar in my seeds im trying to germinate, The rotted ones had some eyelash-gross little squirmy things. I just figured they were fungus gnat babies and I should water less so they dont rot.
Insects are natural. they happen. I appreciate being concerned about possible nematodes, but your plants are indoors. in pots. I just dont know how they could have gotten sick.
The bleach thing always scared me, I know it has saved some root-rotty plants, but it doesnt seem without risks.

I hope all your pretty babies perk up soon!

Looks like the two largest Kumquats are history.. they are pretty much all black now.. I sat down today and examined each tree carefully..
I have decided to keep them until the root stock is gone (if it goes) and if the newest t-bud makes it like it looks like it is going to (still looks exactly the same) I will just get a bud off of it when it gets bigger and "remake" them.. As for every thing else.. well.. they still look sad sad.. but not goners... I retraced my every move.. and well.. I set a timer for 30 minutes..... after the last tree was placed in the soaking solution.. and after close examination... the longer the tree was in the solution the worse it looks now.. unfortunately for the two Kumquats.. they were the first to GO IN TO the solution and sat in the solution till everyone else was unpotted.. the last two trees to go into the solution were.. the newest t-bud and the little Tangerine.. and as you might guess.. they look fine..
What I am doing for my STRESSED OUT trees now... I have put up window tint to cover as much of that window as I could to filter the sunlight a bit.. The soil is still moist so I have not watered them again.. but I have been misting what leaves are left about every 2 hrs during the day..
in retrospect.. if I had just put them in plain water and added the bleach THEN started the timer I might have not lost the trees.. Not for sure on that.. but.. that is my best guess on how I screwed up and how I could have not screwed up..
wasn't my first screw up and I'm sure it will not be my last.. but for the sake of what trees survive and any future trees I hope that is the worse screw up I make with my trees..
Anyone who has followed "George's" history.. I purchased him nearly a year TO THE DAY from the day that I soaked all the trees ..
Gina *BabyBlue*

sorry to hear theyre not looking any better! Ill keep my fingers crossed for you that they perk up or leave you with something worth saving. Take Care,

I bought 5 Yards of Compost since my garden area was nothing but sand i already had tons of rabbits and Other ranch droppings from horse cow and pic in my barn dry and just needing to be rototilled into Bags ..

But when i started digging threw the dirt omg There they where nemotoeds.. I called the nursary and they said yes they new thats why they gave me a 5% discount ...

I Was so mad i took the Junk dirt Back and started a Compost pile mostly Junk mail you know the type buy this buy that Morgage people wanting you to Morgage your house as if owning one isnt enough...

then i thought Hmmm Ill go around and get all the old Phone books so i posted an ad.. i had went fishing a week later and got 50 dozen night crawlers and 20 dozen red wigglers from an older couple who raise them for the market on fishing and was more money then there SSI... i went to freddys and grabbed all there old Coupon ads they throw away ..( right next door is a recycling paper box they never use) and Poof i had a great start at a Compost pile Now what paper worms Hmm went driving around thought i need a cup of coffee thats IT Coffee shops where my next stop.. Espresso shops are happy to give you there waste product i had that bin half full then back to safeways and freddys for there bad corn and fruits ..
NO meat and NO dairy and the Next yr i had some of the best dirt around .
i mixen my compost with rabbit horse cow and pig droppings my corn was 15 ft tall and the corn its self was 20 inches long and sweet ...

If ya have a small area this is what i made mine with .. i made the frame out of old pallets .. I use that peg Board with all those holes in it Oh man and the top too i put it right in the sun .. I watered it every other day and ket it turned by rolling the darned think then winter hit ...I did nothing to it let it sit i went out as spring broke in and use y hoe to turn some of the soil and poof a mouce made a house I called Tiger man to come play and get rid of the soil wreckers ..If ya got a chance and love to build things this worked great for me ..Tammy

here is a picture I just took...

George is front right side.. reduced to strictly root stock.. as well as Nola (far right) Next to Nola are the Last T-bud grafting (right back) which has not lost one leaf, bit on the limp side.. infront of it is the tangerine (can see bit ,4 leaves, of it over the floresent light)it hasn't lost one leaf and is not at all limp.. next pot over from the tangerine is the clementine. it has two leaves left. one is a bit on the dry side.. behind the clementine is the meyer lemon.. no leaves left on it.. but the wood looks healthy.. next to the meyer lemon is the calamondin.. it's size has been reduced considerably.. the branches dried out.. they didn't trun black like the kumquats did.. they just shrivled up.. all the leaves that are on it now are limp but not crispy dried out.. infront of the Cal is my Tangelo(far left front).. it has 4 leaves and some of those are on the dry side.. not crispy dry though..
So there is still hope.. I will regraft "George" and "Nola" so long as the root stock survives and the little graft..
They do look sad though..
Tax return will be in in a week!!! Hubbby is gonna let me order a few new trees..
Not sure how many I will be ordering yet.. at least 2.. I want a finger lime and a Satsuma..
Anyway that is how the trees are doing..
Gina *BabyBlue*

So was there any evidence of these invaders actually BEING nematodes? anyone? Dr. Carolyn on the tomato forum says theres pretty much no way someone way north is going to have the harmful (tomato-root-knot) nematodes that they have in Florida soils. Are these the same that cause citrus damage?
Is there a way to ID soil problems and treat them without the bleach or in a safer manner?
Again, I had some wiggly gross things in my over-wet rotted seeds, I figured they were gnat larvae.

Garnet,
Honestly don't have a clue what for sure they were.. I know they did not fly and they were only in the soil.. may have been different bugs.. I probably just over reacting.. but I had under reacted to something else earlier that week and honestly should have just stayed clear of my trees.. My guilty feeling about the other thing made me over react and not think clearly when I reacted to the bugs..
They were waaaaay too small to take photo with my camera.. So I couldn't have posted a picture and say what is this..
I will probably never know for sure what I had.
Gina *BabyBlue*

When I used the bleach treatment last year on a Trovita orange, I used a 5% mix, 1 bleach to 20 waterLet the roots soak for 5-10 minutes and rinsed well. I then potted up in new fresh medium with extra perlite. I have had no problems since. The tree put out new leaf buds almost immedietly and is still growing.
andi