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My new citrus grove update PHASE II

 
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Darkman
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Joined: 20 Jul 2010
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Location: Pensacola Florida South of I-10 Zone 8b/9a

Posted: Sun 16 Jan, 2011 11:29 pm

Yesterday I had my ground disced and I am one large step closer to planting BUT before I plant I need the best irrigation system for the new citrus grove. The area is about 100' x 75' and will be well fed.

What systems are being used and what are the advantages and dissavantages? I'm open to underground, drip and overhead or any combination of them. I also plan to install the freeze protection at this time.

One more thing. What about Fertigation? I'm particularly interested in this.

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GT
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010
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Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)

Posted: Mon 17 Jan, 2011 2:55 am

Darkman,

I am very happy with my drip irrigation system that I have all around the house. All the tubing is buried so it does not interfere with my grass cutting exercise. The main tubing is 0.7 as I recall and individual trees are watered by a .25 tubing connected to rings of drip lines (strips of drip lines with as many drippers as you need attached to plastic T-s) I got all my supplies from irrigationdirect.com together with a timer. I lied down the main tubing, made connections and then buried the whole working system. It is a good idea to use light-colored sand to cover tubing. This way, you will find it a year later if modifications will be needed. Of course, if making a "pretty front/back yard" is not that critical, do not bother with burying your tubing at all especially if, say, more than 50 trees are planed. I think I have about 50 plans watered this way now. Another good idea would be to have more than one line (or have cut-off valves on some plants that do not like too much water) to account for plants with different water needs. The timer is extremely handy when you must leave for a week or two. Very Happy

Good luck!
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mrtexas
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Joined: 02 Dec 2005
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Location: 9a Missouri City,TX

Posted: Mon 17 Jan, 2011 6:38 pm

Drip is by far the best and BTW the cheapest. If I were you I'd run 1/2 inch flexible black poly lines cheaply available 100 feet of 1/2 tube is $15 at Home Depot for main lines. User 1/4inch line for running up the trunk of the tree. Get the little sprinkler head and put it up in the trunk of the tree. This would give you irrigation as well as freeze protection. You can do the system for $100-$200 or so, a fraction of the cost of any other system, really. If you don't want to run a fogger type head except for freeze, run a circle of 1/2 hose around the tree with several emitters and put a micro-valve on the fogger head. The line is also available with inline emitters. I used the inline emitter since I mostly wanted the system to water pots. No need to bury the system in Florida like Millet did in Colorado!

You probably have to get the sprinkler heads at a drip supplier like 1-800-SAYRAIN or others. I'm sure you can do the whole area with one zone as drip emitters are typically 1/2 gallon per hour up to 2-3 gallons per hour. I irrigate my 30 trees with one zone and a couple hundred feet of poly pipe. You might question 1/2 gallon per hour but nothing prevents leaving it on for 24 hours to get 12 gallons per tree.

You might contact Stan Mckenzie on the forum for details of what he used in South Carolina.

Fertigation, probably overkill for you especially if you are tapping into city water!

Fittings, end,tee, valve, adapter to PVC all costing less than $1 a piece and aren't permanent. They can be loosened, removed, and re-used:


A fogger head:
http://www.toromicroirrigation.com/ItemDetail.aspx?c1=2&c2=3&c3=19&p1=23

The leftovers of my drip system. I have changed my mind several times on the design of my system.

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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
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Location: Colorado

Posted: Mon 17 Jan, 2011 6:56 pm

On our farm we use several acres of drip irrigation in an grove of Aspen trees. The drip lines are placed 30 inches apart and 8 inches below ground. They are hooked up to a 2 inch PVC header pipe which is fed by a 30 gallon per minute well. It works great. HOWEVER, although this type of irrigation, is a good system, it cannot protect Darkman's trees from a freeze. He needs a micro irrigation system that is capable of spraying water directly upon the trees, especially newly planted trees, and in later years when they are small. As Mr. Texas recomended, I also would recommend Darkman to contact Stan McKenzie and visit with him on the system that he has in place. Also visit with Florida Farm advisers and the University.. There are systems manufactured for exactly the type of grove that Darkman is planing. - Millet (728-)
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GT
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010
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Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)

Posted: Mon 17 Jan, 2011 8:11 pm

MrTexas is right. My main tubing is 1/2 too. Sorry! I only buried my system for aesthetic reasons; it costs me around $150 from irrigationdirect and couple days of work. I have total about 200' of main tubing and the system irrigates everything including fruit trees, my wife's roses, vegetables, etc.
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Darkman
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Joined: 20 Jul 2010
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Location: Pensacola Florida South of I-10 Zone 8b/9a

Posted: Tue 18 Jan, 2011 12:41 am

Thank GT, MrTexas and Millet,

How long will the ½” black poly last when exposed to direct sunlight? I might run my supply line buried but run the poly laterals on top so I can see the fittings.

My concern with drip is that with our porous soil I’m afraid there will be very little lateral migration of the water. I’m concerned that without spreading the water around I will be encouraging a constricted root system. What do you think about that? Millets system spreads the water evenly and his soil probably has lateral migration.

I have about a 200’ run to get to the laterals from the valves so I’m thinking of 1 ½” valves and pipe. Any concerns there?

I definitely want to run the freeze protection separately. Am I supposed to run a fogger or a spray head on the trunk?

Stan gave me a few tips already but I hope he will join in too.

Isn’t there anyone doing fertigation?

Mr. Texas,

I plan to use a well as the city water is getting a bit expensive. With that in mind what do you think about fertigation? Also I would not want the well to run continuously so the higher 3 gallons per hour sounds better for me. I might would run it four times a day though to spread out the watering.


Millet wrote:
On our farm we use several acres of drip irrigation in an grove of Aspen trees. The drip lines are placed 30 inches apart and 8 inches below ground. They are hooked up to a 2 inch PVC header pipe which is fed by a 30 gallon per minute well. Also visit with Florida Farm advisers and the University.. There are systems manufactured for exactly the for the type of grove that Darkman is planing.


Millet,

How do you know if an emitter gets clogged?

What are the specs on your well?

_________________
Charles in Pensacola

Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong!

Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable!
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Millet
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Posted: Tue 18 Jan, 2011 1:12 am

I forgot to mention, on our underground drip system, besides being attached to a well for the water supply, it is also attached to a 10 horse power paddle type air compressor. After the trees are thoroughly irrigated, the compressor is turned on and the root systems are then aerated through the same drip tubes. We commercially grow Jack-Be-Little mini-pumpkins for the Colorado and Arizona stores of the Michael's Craft Store chain,. The root zone aeration increased the production by an additional 34 percent, and the crop can be harvested 2 weeks earlier. When air is compressed it heats up, and a 10 horse compressor heat the air quite hot. Therefore, a heat exchanger has to be added to the system, or the hot air would melt the PVC header pipe. Therefore, by adjusting the heat exchanger to set the temperature of the air going through the drip tubes, we are able to raise or lower the temperature at the plants root zone. Hotter for tropical plants like pumpkins, peppers and cooler of leaf crops like lettuce. The system was installed in 1999 by a company called Grow-Air Inc. The EPA contacted us and said they would pay 60 percent of an additional system, if they could monitor it as research project on the effectiveness of applying insecticides and fertilizers through a fumigation system as to leaching, safety, etc.. I declined their offer. (I did not care if they would pay 100 percent--I want nothing to do what so ever with the EPA on our property).- Millet (728-)
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GT
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010
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Location: Beaumont, TX (zone 9a)

Posted: Tue 18 Jan, 2011 1:22 am

Darkman,
You may use micro sprinklers or foggers instead of drippers. You may design your system such that you would even unplug your emitters and plug something else... Look at 1/4 sprinklers/emitters... There are many different types... Regarding the life time of the tubing, I only have mine for a couple years with no issues. I am sure the poly tubing will last quite a while. Smile
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mrtexas
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Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 1030
Location: 9a Missouri City,TX

Posted: Tue 18 Jan, 2011 4:12 am

Darkman wrote:
Thank GT, MrTexas and Millet,

How long will the ½” black poly last when exposed to direct sunlight? I might run my supply line buried but run the poly laterals on top so I can see the fittings.

My concern with drip is that with our porous soil I’m afraid there will be very little lateral migration of the water. I’m concerned that without spreading the water around I will be encouraging a constricted root system. What do you think about that? Millets system spreads the water evenly and his soil probably has lateral migration.

I have about a 200’ run to get to the laterals from the valves so I’m thinking of 1 ½” valves and pipe. Any concerns there?

I definitely want to run the freeze protection separately. Am I supposed to run a fogger or a spray head on the trunk?

Stan gave me a few tips already but I hope he will join in too.

Isn’t there anyone doing fertigation?

Mr. Texas,

I plan to use a well as the city water is getting a bit expensive. With that in mind what do you think about fertigation? Also I would not want the well to run continuously so the higher 3 gallons per hour sounds better for me. I might would run it four times a day though to spread out the watering.


Millet wrote:
On our farm we use several acres of drip irrigation in an grove of Aspen trees. The drip lines are placed 30 inches apart and 8 inches below ground. They are hooked up to a 2 inch PVC header pipe which is fed by a 30 gallon per minute well. Also visit with Florida Farm advisers and the University.. There are systems manufactured for exactly the for the type of grove that Darkman is planing.


Millet,

How do you know if an emitter gets clogged?

What are the specs on your well?


The black poly is supposed to last 7 years or more. Burying is also easy though. 1 inch pipe will be plenty big. You size the pipe by flow rate. 1000 emitters at 0.5 gph is only 8 gpm and 1" pipe is plenty big for that. You can get emitters that spray in a circular pattern if you are concerned with the sandy soil. The place I bought from 1800SAYRAIN gave me lots of valuable free advice about what to order.

You put in a special very fine filter so the emitter don't get plugged. You can also buy tape with emitters that is cheaper and replace it every year. That is what many farmers do.

I don't know anything about fertigation.
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Mark_T
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Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 757
Location: Gilbert,AZ

Posted: Tue 18 Jan, 2011 5:46 am

Darkman wrote:
Yesterday I had my ground disced and I am one large step closer to planting BUT before I plant I need the best irrigation system for the new citrus grove. The area is about 100' x 75' and will be well fed.

What systems are being used and what are the advantages and dissavantages? I'm open to underground, drip and overhead or any combination of them. I also plan to install the freeze protection at this time.

One more thing. What about Fertigation? I'm particularly interested in this.


Darkman, is this a commercial grove your planning?
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Lemandarangequatelo
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Joined: 01 Mar 2010
Posts: 485
Location: UK

Posted: Tue 18 Jan, 2011 8:15 am

Millet, how many hours is the root zone aerated for each day? Do you apply root zone aeration to your citrus trees as well? If so have you seen any noticeable results?
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6657
Location: Colorado

Posted: Tue 18 Jan, 2011 6:34 pm

Darkman, as Mr. Texas writes above, every system should have a filter that the water first passes through, before it reaches the emitters. Our well has a large centrifugal filter at the well head, and than another finer filter at the drip system. We installed 20 mm gage drip tubes which have a 20 year life guarantee.. In all the years we have run the system I have never has a problem with plugging. At the end of the season we open the end of the drips tubes and flush out the lines (the very ends are above ground). Fumigation rates depend on what rate of a injector you install. Normally commercial injectors come 1:100, 2:100 and 3:100. Meaning for every 100 gallons of irrigation water the fertigation/chemigation unit will inject 1 gallon to 3 gallons of nutrient solution, or insecticide or what ever into the line. You can purchase a Dose-A-Tron injector as small as 5-gallon. Knowing the injection rate, you make your fertilizer concentrated enough so that the diluted solution supplies the PPM that you wish. It is very simple. Again, Stan will be a big help to you. Just telephone him and tell him who you are and ask his help. Stan is always happy to help where ever he can. - Millet (727-)
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Millet
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Location: Colorado

Posted: Tue 18 Jan, 2011 6:40 pm

Lemandarangequatelo, we aerate for various periods of time depending on the crop and the irrigation time. A normal time frequently is 1/2 hour to 1 hour. I don't use the system on my citrus as they are all growing in a greenhouse and not in the fields. - Millet (727-)
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Darkman
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Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 968
Location: Pensacola Florida South of I-10 Zone 8b/9a

Posted: Wed 19 Jan, 2011 9:55 pm

Mark_T wrote:
Darkman wrote:
Yesterday I had my ground disced and I am one large step closer to planting BUT before I plant I need the best irrigation system for the new citrus grove. The area is about 100' x 75' and will be well fed.

What systems are being used and what are the advantages and dissavantages? I'm open to underground, drip and overhead or any combination of them. I also plan to install the freeze protection at this time.

One more thing. What about Fertigation? I'm particularly interested in this.


Darkman, is this a commercial grove your planning?


No not commercial but definately more than most homeowners grow. I am planting many other varieties of fruits within this area. I will have about thirty citrus mostly satsumas.

_________________
Charles in Pensacola

Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong!

Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable!
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Darkman
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Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 968
Location: Pensacola Florida South of I-10 Zone 8b/9a

Posted: Wed 19 Jan, 2011 11:16 pm

Millet wrote:
Darkman, as Mr. Texas writes above, every system should have a filter that the water first passes through, before it reaches the emitters. Our well has a large centrifugal filter at the well head, and than another finer filter at the drip system. We installed 20 mm gage drip tubes which have a 20 year life guarantee.. In all the years we have run the system I have never has a problem with plugging. At the end of the season we open the end of the drips tubes and flush out the lines (the very ends are above ground). Fumigation rates depend on what rate of a injector you install. Normally commercial injectors come 1:100, 2:100 and 3:100. Meaning for every 100 gallons of irrigation water the fertigation/chemigation unit will inject 1 gallon to 3 gallons of nutrient solution, or insecticide or what ever into the line. You can purchase a Dose-A-Tron injector as small as 5-gallon. Knowing the injection rate, you make your fertilizer concentrated enough so that the diluted solution supplies the PPM that you wish. It is very simple. Again, Stan will be a big help to you. Just telephone him and tell him who you are and ask his help. Stan is always happy to help where ever he can. - Millet (727-)


For a homeowner using a drip system will a centrifugal filter work? Don't you have to have a constant flow for them to work properly. As much area as you are doing you probably have a substantial flow when in use. A sand filter for a swimming pool would probably work as a prefilter for me but I really don't have a clue. I think they are good to about 8 - 12 microns. A small DE filter would get it down to less than 3 microns but they are dependent on flow too where the sand filter isn't.

The fertigation sounds appealing provided I could find a baisc mix that would work on all the fruit trees (citrus and other). I could then supplement each tree based upon it's individual needs.

MrTexas wrote:
The black poly is supposed to last 7 years or more. Burying is also easy though. 1 inch pipe will be plenty big. You size the pipe by flow rate. 1000 emitters at 0.5 gph is only 8 gpm and 1" pipe is plenty big for that. You can get emitters that spray in a circular pattern if you are concerned with the sandy soil. The place I bought from 1800SAYRAIN gave me lots of valuable free advice about what to order.

You put in a special very fine filter so the emitter don't get plugged. You can also buy tape with emitters that is cheaper and replace it every year. That is what many farmers do.


As cheap as it is that is a reasonable length of time. My concerns with burying it is I would have to disturb the roots for maintenance if there was any. My main system uses 1 1/2" mains and 1 1/2" valves that feed 1 " laterals. For my palm trees I ran 1" PVC buried and then a 1" PVC riser to the surface. The 1/2" Black poly is attached there and circles the palm tree. Black poly barbed tees (3 - 4) with screw on adjustable drippers (up to 3 gallons per hour) water the palms. This is on city supply and I still get some cloggage. With the screw on drippers I can just unscrew it with my hand clean it out and screw it back on. No tools! Our water just went up 26% to pay for a sewer improvement project. All my irrigation doesn't use the sewer so I think itis time for a well. Several times last year my irrigation meter usage was close to $100.

How do you clean the filters or do you replace them and how often?

GT wrote:
You may use micro sprinklers or foggers instead of drippers. You may design your system such that you would even unplug your emitters and plug something else... Look at 1/4 sprinklers/emitters... There are many different types... Regarding the life time of the tubing, I only have mine for a couple years with no issues. I am sure the poly tubing will last quite a while.


For freeze protection is a fogger as efficient as a spray nozzel. I guess my concern would be that the fogger would freeze up. It probably would use less water which would limit the amount of ice buidup (weight) on the tree. Any thoughts.

Thanks to all for the replies.

_________________
Charles in Pensacola

Life - Some assembly required, As is no warranty, Batteries not included, Instructions shipped separately and are frequently wrong!

Kentucky Bourbon - It may not solve the problem but it helps to make it tolerable!
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