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Intergeneric hybrids - do they still exist?

 
Citrus Growers Forum Index du Forum -> Hybridizing citrus
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Wirtual24
Citruholic
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Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 41
Location: Poland, zone 6a

Posted: Sun 28 Apr, 2013 9:38 am

Some time ago trifoliate oranges, kumquats, eremocitrus and microcitrus species weren't considered as true citrus. So hybrids between them and a "true" citrus (like lemon, orange etc.) were called intergeneric. Now all of them are believed to be true Citrus species and names such like Poncirus trifoliata or Eremocitrus glauca are no longer correct.

I've found one document about crossing Citropsis schweinfurthii and ‘Nanpu’ tangor / ‘Chandler’ pummelo. It states that some seedlings resulted from these crosses, but I can't find more info about them on the Internet.

So I wonder, if there exists any viable intergeneric citrus hybrid? Is it potentially possible to cross a citrus and, for example, murraya? Or Hesperthusa species? I don't think it would be easy, but I'm curious: has anybody ever done this? Razz
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Laaz
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Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 5642
Location: Dorchester County, South Carolina

Posted: Sun 28 Apr, 2013 10:12 am

I don't believe it is possible.

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pagnr
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Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 407
Location: Australia

Posted: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 11:21 am

Try searching for Citrus INTRAGENERIC hybrids, and also Citrus Intrageneric somatic hybrids ( where non reproductive cells can be fused to form the hybrid, instead of crossing the pollen and ovum to form seed in fruit. )
Looks like Citrus X Murraya has been tried by cross pollination. and Citrus X Clausena has been done as somatic hybrid.
Somatic hybrids dont require pollen and ovum to be compatible, as would be required with trying to cross pollinate Citrus and its relatives.
This method is now more likely to be attempted to get wide crosses with Citrus and another related Genus.
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Wirtual24
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Joined: 29 Jul 2008
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Location: Poland, zone 6a

Posted: Tue 30 Apr, 2013 4:47 pm

Thanks for the answers. Yeah, the modern breeding methods allow scientists to get many more hybrids than it would be possible with cross-pollination only. It's nice that Citrus x Murraya has been tried with cross-pollination, pagnr. I'll try to make such a cross when my murraya flowers. Razz
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Till
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Joined: 04 Dec 2012
Posts: 117
Location: Germany (near Frankfurt), Zone 7-8

Posted: Fri 03 May, 2013 6:30 pm

Intergeneric hybrids might also be possible with classical technics. Once again I remember what Ivan Mitschurin did in Russia in order to cross different species and genus (for example Sorbus and Aronia). His procedure was the following:
Start with seedlings. Any other plant doesn't work. In or after (I don't remember) one year from germination cross graft the seedlings. Let them grow. Then graft the twigs of the seedlings into an aduld tree of the opposite species of each. Wait for the first year of blooming and cross. In the second year it is already impossible. This was Mitschurins experience and techics. He emphazised that such a cross is only possible if you start with seedlings due to the greater flexibility of seedlings as compared to mature plants. And he emphasized that crosses will only work with the very first flowers of a plant. Later, he claimed, the plants are not flexible enough.
If a cross does not work even with these trixs he said you should give a little bit of the pistil secretum of the pollen parent on the pistil of the mother plant. And if that does not help also then graft the pistil of the father plant in place of the mother plant's pistil.
By the way, Mitschurin made another interessing observation: Some of the hybrids turned out to be sterile for many years but suddenly developed a lot of viable seeds in one year and from that forever. He took that as another proof that plants learn by experience.
Mitschurin's theories might be contentious. But one thing is very clear: He was extremly successfull.

Mitschurin mainly made his experiments with members of Roseaceae (the classical European fruit trees). It still has to be proven that it also works with Citrus plants and its relatives. But I would wonder if not.
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pagnr
Citrus Guru
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Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 407
Location: Australia

Posted: Fri 03 May, 2013 7:39 pm

Thanks Till, your post reminded me of something I read about techniques for overcoming cross pollination incompatability in breeding flowers and vegetables.
When trying to cross species from the same genus, or closely related genus, pollen incompatability could be overcome by either using immature pollen, pollinating before the fem flower naturally opened, ie before pollen incompatability fully developed. I think other similar tricks were also mentioned.
Sounds like your immature seedling flowers etc , and older hybrid flowers could have more tolerant pollination incompatability status than the same plant at other maturity stages ?
I will try to find the article again.
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Lemandarangequatelo
Citruholic
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Joined: 01 Mar 2010
Posts: 466
Location: UK

Posted: Sat 04 May, 2013 7:20 am

This is very encouraging. Do you think it might be possible to cross a citrus with the Northsky blueberry which is hardy to -43C/-45F? Or are the two species just too far apart to be able to attempt that?
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Sludge
Citruholic
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Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Northern California

Posted: Sun 05 May, 2013 11:28 pm

Lemandarangequatelo wrote:
This is very encouraging. Do you think it might be possible to cross a citrus with the Northsky blueberry which is hardy to -43C/-45F? Or are the two species just too far apart to be able to attempt that?


Way to distant, even using modern hybridization techniques. It might be possible to introduce some of the ways the blueberry deals with cold weather into citrus using genetic engineering. However, even then the technology is probably decades off, our current understanding of genetic engineering is still too crude to make something like a citrus that can tolerate cold as well as a blueberry.
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Till
Citruholic
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Joined: 04 Dec 2012
Posts: 117
Location: Germany (near Frankfurt), Zone 7-8

Posted: Mon 06 May, 2013 4:03 pm

Thank you, pagnr, for your information, too. That was new to me.

I found a mistake in my post: INSTEAD OF "STEMEN" I SHOULD HAVE WRITTEN "PISTIL". I am sorry for my English. I used a word that does not exist. But I have corrected it now by re-editing my post.
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Till
Citruholic
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Joined: 04 Dec 2012
Posts: 117
Location: Germany (near Frankfurt), Zone 7-8

Posted: Tue 07 May, 2013 7:59 am

Couldn't it be interesting to cross Poncirus with some distantly related members of the subtribe Citreae (see the list below in http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rautengew%C3%A4chse)? Maybe that helps crossing out the bad taste of Poncirus. But well, this goal has already been archieved in crosses with Citrus...[/quote]
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Sylvain
Site Admin
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 790
Location: Bergerac, France.

Posted: Fri 06 Sep, 2013 2:37 pm

First fruiting intergeneric hybrids between Citrus and Citropsis obtained by "natural ways". Smile

Any of you subscribes to the "Journal of the American Society for Horticultural Science"? If yes, PM me. Thanks.
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