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Swamp Lemon

 
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Laaz
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Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 5648
Location: Dorchester County, South Carolina

Posted: Thu 09 Oct, 2008 12:42 am

Not sure if this should be listed here or roostock.

Anyway... Terry sent me some fruit with the below story attached. The fruit is the size of large Trifoliata fruit. Same look & texture. The thing is these fruit don't have the stink of standard Trifoliata. Too late to take photos, I will get some tomorrow, clean the seed and let you know what I find.

Quote:
Swamp Lemon Story


  I finally got up with the guy who has the Swamp Lemon.  What a neat old guy.  He reminded me of my grandfather. Here's what he told me so far.
    That he was 14 when he was hunting on the Livingston Creek in Delco, NC.   He saw the swamp lemon and asked he's older hunting companion about it.  His friend said that the Swamp Lemons had grown wild there on Livingston creek for as long as he could remember.  This guy Charley said that as that was 60 years ago and adding his friend's age would make it about 125 years that these lemons were growing wild there.  
    I think the 60 years is reliable. I'm not as sure of his old friends extra 45years.  So, this Swamp Lemon has been growing there for 60 to 125 years.
    He said that most people who live in that areas have these lemon trees growing in their yard by digging them up from this creek.  But as far as I know the Swamp Lemon trees are only growing wild along the west side of Rte. 74 where it crosses the Livingston Creek.
    So I'm thinking that some one brought a fruit there from FL about 60 to 125 ears ago. The trifoliate may have been cross-pollinated from an orange.  But the fruit doesn't look much different than trifoliate.
I am surprised that in 60 to 125 years that all of the Cape Fear river isn't covered with Swamp Lemons because Livingston Creek flows into the Cape Fear River.  The Lemon site is only about 30 miles from Wilmington. Maybe the brackish water helped.
After a lot of effort I obtained some fruit and seedlings and some cuttings.
Now here's the thing. The fruits flesh has no trifoliate taste or smell. None at all. The peeling has a slight off smell and a gummy nature to it. It doesn't taste good or bad it's kind of bland. The taste is closer to an orange than a lemon but definitely citrus. I don't know if a regular Trifoliate has a lemon or orange taste. All I remember of the one I tried to taste was the terrible smell that was nauseating. But, unlike the usual trifoliate you can eat it. I was told that some have made lemonade with it. So, I tried it. On a scale of 1 to 10 I'd give it a 5. If you live in a zone 9 or 10 it wouldn't impress you. If you live in a zone 6 or 7 and wanted to say you drank a Trifoliate lemonade it wasn't bad.
My question is, "If a Swamp Lemon is used to re-make some of the early trifoliate crosses do you think I would be ahead of the game taste wise?" This doesn't seem to be a soil generated taste difference. The Swamp Lemon that I got is at the least third generation from the original tree and is 10 to 15 miles from the original tree.


Terry Reed

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Terry
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Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 243
Location: Wilmington, NC

Posted: Thu 09 Oct, 2008 10:31 am

Laaz, Here are some pic I forgot to send.
Terry
The tree is about 8 to 10 ft tall.

The Swamp Lemon leaf is in the middle.
The large leaf on the left is a wild lemon (Trifoliata cross) from LA. They call them
Rough lemons. The leaf on the right is a normal Trifoliata.





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Laaz
Site Owner
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Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 5648
Location: Dorchester County, South Carolina

Posted: Thu 09 Oct, 2008 11:04 am

Thanks Terry, and thanks again for the fruit.

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ivica
Moderator
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Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 658
Location: Sisak, Croatia, zone 7b

Posted: Thu 09 Oct, 2008 7:00 pm

Comment about leaf shape: they all are serrated.
standardl Trifoliata do not have serrated leaves, or I'm missing something?

BTW: what do you think about serrated trifoliata leaves 11 cm long,
and thorns 13 cm long ? Can that be considered as normal for P. Trifoliata ?
PS: Photo available if needed.

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JoeReal
Site Admin
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Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 4726
Location: Davis, California

Posted: Thu 09 Oct, 2008 7:21 pm

What's THE standard trifoliata?

The frost cultivar of trifoliate are more serrated than others. There are differences in the serration of the leaves amongst various trifoliate types.
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ivica
Moderator
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Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 658
Location: Sisak, Croatia, zone 7b

Posted: Thu 09 Oct, 2008 7:34 pm

Quote:
What's THE standard trifoliata?
Joe, that is good question.
Maybe you have better access to this website (link given by Citrange Mike if I can recall correctly) http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/tax_site_acc.pl?RIV%20Poncirus%20trifoliata and are able to compile something usable from there.

EDIT:
For example PI 600647 'BIG-LEAF'
What is the size of leaves?

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buddinman
Citrus Guru
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Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 342
Location: Lumberton Texas zone 8

Posted: Thu 09 Oct, 2008 9:31 pm

It is definitely a hybrid trifoliata of some kind. The 3 leaves with the large center leaf is similar to carrizo, swingle and troyer. Roger Qiinn in Orange county TX has a similar one with the same leaf pattern but the fruit is not very good.
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gdbanks
Citruholic
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Joined: 08 May 2008
Posts: 251
Location: Jersey Village, TX

Posted: Fri 10 Oct, 2008 1:24 am

There was a Nova show on PBS this last week, about dinosaurs in the arctic. They discussed serrated leaves and the importance of them in colder weather. Serrated leaves, allows the plant to bring water from the ground during cold weather. Someone did a study taking the ratio of plants with serrated and non serrated leaves to known weather conditions. They then used that information to approximate the weather in the arctic when the dinosaurs were there from leaf fossil records.

The trifoliate is fairly cold hardy so it makes some since that they are serrated.

I would like the try Swamp Lemon.

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Keith NC
Citruholic
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Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 58

Posted: Thu 23 Oct, 2008 12:11 pm

The flesh seems more yellow than Poncirus and the juice has an agreeable sour taste. There were Poncirus oils in the skin though, and the fruit size (external appearance) was more similar to Poncirus than citrange.

Many thanks to Terry for sending the fruit!
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