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Sad Meyer, need suggestiions.

 
Citrus Growers Forum Index du Forum -> Container citrus
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Mark_T
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Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 757
Location: Gilbert,AZ

Posted: Fri 13 Nov, 2009 9:19 pm

I've had this Meyer for about a year. It's never really looked happy or healthy. It's grown, but in a rather unattractive pattern. The tree was transplanted from a 5 gallon nursery pot to a 12" terra cotta. I used Cactus soil with extra Perlite. My fertz are Omoscote slow release and Miracid. It's bloomed only twice with 100% bloom drop.

I think the tree has had a thrips at some point, but I can't find any at the moment. I say this because of some of the mangled looking leaves. When I transplanted the tree, I didn't root prune and probably left too much of the original soil intact. The tree gets plenty of sun.

Here are some photos of the tree. I would love some ideas to improve the appearance and health of this tree, as right now it's the one of the eye sores of my collection and it doesn't look like it's going to improve with the measure's I've taken





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jrb
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Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 165
Location: Idaho Falls, ID zone 4A

Posted: Fri 13 Nov, 2009 10:40 pm

I'm no expert but I can tell you it looks a lot like my potted Meyer lemon. Overall, it's a lighter shade of green than all of my other citrus trees and it always has a few older yellowing leaves, some with brown spots just like yours. Yet it keeps growing and producing new leaves and fruit. Definitely not the prettiest citrus tree. I thought this was probably due to its high level of fruit productivity compared to my other trees but you're not seeing any fruit on your tree. My guess is your tree is as healthy as any other potted Meyer lemon and there's some reason other than tree health that's preventing the fruit from forming. Maybe lack of pollination or excessive heat? I don't know how parthenocarpic a Meyer lemon is. Sometimes the brown leaf tips can indicate excessive fertilizer or salts.

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Jim
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Sat 14 Nov, 2009 12:34 am

From looking at your tree, I can tell that you have not flushed out the tree's root system with clean clear water in quite some time. Your tree is showing the classic symptoms of high soluble salts in the root zone (burnt leaf tips, dull yellow leaves, poor growth, a thin canopy, plus the production of little or no crop of fruit. A containerized citrus tree needs to have its growth medium flushed out a minimum of twice a year with clean clear water in the amount of 4X the volume of the container. Flushing out the growth medium, washes the salts from the container. To retard the build up of soluble salts, every time you water or fertilize, apply enough water to the surface of the container so that at least 10 percent drains out the bottom. - Millet (1,160-)
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Mark_T
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Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 757
Location: Gilbert,AZ

Posted: Sun 15 Nov, 2009 12:46 am

Thanks for the input, I did a flush as you described today and will see how it reacts. Should I prune this thing?
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Sun 15 Nov, 2009 2:14 am

No, do NOT prune the tree. After you flush out the salts, your tree should begin to put on new growth in about one months time, provided the tree receives the required winter environment (ample light, heat and nutrition). If the proper growth environment is supplied, I would recommend that you fertilize the tree at 300 PPM Nitrogen twice a month. The best of luck to you and your tree. - Millet (1,159-)
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Mark_T
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Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 757
Location: Gilbert,AZ

Posted: Wed 18 Nov, 2009 4:32 am

We have cold nights right now, but the days are nice and sunny. I'll be interested to see how things grow in this weather. I'm still getting new growth on others trees and plants, but it's slowed.
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Hilltop
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Joined: 16 May 2009
Posts: 217
Location: Signal Hill (near Long Beach / LA), CA

Posted: Wed 25 Nov, 2009 9:15 pm

Here is my Improved Meyer Lemon. Its planted in CHC/Peat Moss, 3:1. Is it suffering the same condition? To be on the safe side I watered it with Epsom Salts at 1 tbs per gallon.




Here is a close up of its fallen leaves. Also, is the leaf drop a primary result of winter leaf drop? The coldest it has gotten so far is low 50's and high 40's.


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Hilltop
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Joined: 16 May 2009
Posts: 217
Location: Signal Hill (near Long Beach / LA), CA

Posted: Sat 05 Dec, 2009 4:51 pm

Here's a picture of my Meyer Lemon leaves. Is this suffering from magnesium deficiency? I watered with Epsom salts last week and today with 1 tbsp per gallon just to be safe.


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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Sun 06 Dec, 2009 2:23 am

No it is not a magnesium deficiency, in either of the above trees. A magnesium deficiency shows a green delta shape at the center bottom of the leaf blade on an otherwise yellow leaf. Every grower that grows in a container needs (must have) a soil thermometer. If you have a soil thermometer, what is the temperature of the growth medium half way between the trunk and the outside edge of the container, approximately 4 or 5 inches deep? Your top picture shows the tree's foliage in the direct sun, while the container is shaded by the wall. The leaves look like a nitrogen deficiency, perhaps from under fertilizing,but could also be from a medium that is to cold. How often do you fertilize the tree? To answer correctly, we need to know the temperature of the growth medium. - Millet (1,137-)
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Hilltop
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Joined: 16 May 2009
Posts: 217
Location: Signal Hill (near Long Beach / LA), CA

Posted: Sun 06 Dec, 2009 3:19 pm

Good observation about the location of the tree. It is elevated on a rack on an above garage deck. I have two other trees that I got around the same time that are on the floor nearby and they are doing fine. They are in Smart Pots so I'm sure the wind goes right through the fabric lining. I do not have a soil thermometer so I'll have to get one. I've had the trees for only a few months and I have not fertilized them at all thinking it was less needed during this time of year. I haven't been able to find the perfect 5:1:3 ratio fertilizer mentioned elsewhere so I'll probably get the "citrus & avocado" fertilizer that I see at the big box stores. In the meantime I'll lower the trees from that height and put them on the floor of the deck. Once I get the thermometer, what's the optimum temperature for this time of year that I should be shooting for? If its too cold should I put like a box covering over the height of the pot or the height of the entire tree?
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Sun 06 Dec, 2009 5:05 pm

The temperature range for growth of citrus roots and foliage is between 55.4F to 92F, and the optimum temperature to achieve the best growth is 86F. At temperatures below 55.4F a citrus tree is "dormant" an cannot produce any growth at all. To insure that your tree does not drop its leaves from WLD, it is important to keep the root temperature at or above 64F, and if some WLD is still observed raise the medium temperature to 70F. If you cannot locate a fertilizer with a 5-1-3 ratio, than purchase a water soluble fertilizer that has a formula with high nitrogen and potassium and a low level of phosphorous, but be sure that it contains trace minerals. A containerized tree will require some fertilization year around. I fertilize the same year around, because I am able to supply my trees with the required amount of light for the entire year. Many indoor trees are fertilized at 1/2 the normal rate from approximately November through February, then a full strength for the balance of the year. Good luck to you and your tree. - Millet (1,137-)
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Hilltop
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Joined: 16 May 2009
Posts: 217
Location: Signal Hill (near Long Beach / LA), CA

Posted: Wed 09 Dec, 2009 7:02 pm

I didn't have a soil thermometer so I used a thermometer hanging on the wall and buried it about 6 inches into my CHC. It read about 45 degrees at around noon time and that is not even the coldest part of the day.

I lowered the rack they were sitting on onto the floor so that they are no longer exposed to drafts. I also needed to warm up the soil somehow so I wrapped them in bubble wrap with the bubble side on the inside. I then folded the excess over the top. I only had 10:10:10 fertilizer granules so I sprinkled some onto the soil.

The Meyer Lemon is on the right and the Tarocco is on the left. As you can see the Meyer Lemon has lost most of it leaves. Hopefully, the bubble wrap will help bring the temperature back up and stop the WLD.




As a comparison, here is how the Meyer lemon looked about a month ago. Much more leaves. http://gardenofgary.blogspot.com/2009/11/improved-meyer-lemon.html
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bastrees
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Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 232
Location: Southeastern PA

Posted: Wed 09 Dec, 2009 8:25 pm

You can buy a $10-15 digital meat thermometer at any store that carries cooking gadgets. Mine has about a 5-inch probe, which should be sufficient for you to determine what the conditions are in the root zone. A short string of Christmas lights, the size used for wreaths, is what I use to keep my pots warm. I have them wrapped around rigid pots, and lightly blanketed with quilted material. This is good for a root zone temperature of 65-72 F, in a room where the daily temperature is only around 55-60 F. Since your pots are fabric, you would likely have a higher heat transfer. but would have other issues to consider for watering, local hot spots, etc.

Barbara
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