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"Different" Opinion on CHC
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RyanL
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Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Posts: 410
Location: Orange County, North Carolina. 7B

Posted: Fri 21 May, 2010 5:26 pm

First off I would like to say...I totally and honestly respect the opinions and wisdom of senior members of this forum and recommendations of CHC (coconut husk chips) as a viable medium for citrus growing.

However, in my opinion is not the miracle medium some are led to believe. CHC can be a good choice for professional greenhouse/indoor citrus growing or where environment is controlled to some extent. But, for the regular enthusiast level grower CHC can spell disaster.

CHC is not a suitable citrus growing medium for the vast majority of citrus growers, especially for outdoor citrus for the following reasons.

1. You must add peat moss. Peat moss has a very low PH(3-5 range depending on source and quality). It is seriously dense, sometimes creating dead root zones at it clumps together. As the peat breaks down over time the PH is lowered below the ideal range native to CHC(6-6.5) slowly bringing your PH lower and lower eventually well below ideal range. Because of the life of CHC(1-3 years) the peat decomposes quicker ensuring dead root zones. If the ideal mix ratio and CHC size is not adhered to you are sure to damage your trees from lack of oxygen among others things. The ideal size is hard to find creating the use of anything labeled "coconut husk" which can contain elevated levels of salt and fibrous coconut material that is less than ideal for citrus cultivation.

2. Dries out too quickly and unevenly, causing constant monitoring. If you are growing your citrus outdoors expect to be checking of the trees daily(which I love to do but sometimes can be hard with work,travel,life,ect) and watering often, 3-4 times week, in times of no rain. This is simply unacceptable for the hobby citrus grower. I understand that some members of this forum are professional citrus growers and have the time and resources to monitor to that extent, but most of us are not and cannot monitor consistently at that level for the life of the trees(a life time). for the average citrus enthusiast this one can be what turns them away from the hobby for good.

3. Organic citrus can be near impossible and far from economical when using CHC. Fans of CHC will not (or should not) deny that they are chemically fertilizing there trees. It is my personal opinion that organic citrus is far superior to chemically/synthetic fertilized citrus. Excessive fertilizer runoff is also a big issue. Chemical fertilizers literally run right through the medium, right into your backyard, wasting upwards of 90% of liquid fertilizer. Unfortunately, dipping the container in a nutrient solution is not a reasonable option when trees are anything other then small size.

4. Better medium options exist.

Ever wonder why when you order a container tree is never comes in CHC?...now you know why true professional growers do not use or recommend the use of CHC.

I have found a useful application for CHC that I do use, A 1-2 inch layer at the bottom of my containers that helps drainage Smile
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MarcV
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Location: Schoten (Antwerp), Belgium

Posted: Fri 21 May, 2010 6:08 pm

So what do you consider a good choice for the hobby grower? I'm always interested to hear! Smile

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mgk65
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Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 84
Location: WV (Zone 6)

Posted: Fri 21 May, 2010 6:45 pm

I am a newbie in growing citrus, but so far, it's been pretty good using the CHC.

As far as the peat moss, Millet recommends the fibrous sphagnum moss and not the ground peat moss in a 4:1 or 4:2 ratio of CHC:MOSS. This creates a far different pH profile.

I planted my trees about two months ago and have hardly had to water due to lots of rain and moderate temps. It will be interesting to see how it goes in the summer. We can get into the 90s for weeks here.

I am using chemical fertilizers, but I feel that it is likely to be very difficult (i.e. impossible) to provide correct feeding by organic means in containers.

For some other container trees/plants I am using a pine bark, ground peat moss, and calcined clay in a 5:1:1 mix. I am also going to experiment with a gritty mix with calcined clay, pine bark, grit in a 1:1:1 mix. Both of these coming from Tapla at gardenweb.

What other medium options are there? I'm always willing to learn. I know Laaz uses Walmart potting mix.

Professionals usually use a pine bark/peat mix cause it is available premixed and is cheap.

Depending on the rest of your media, with CHC in the bottom of a container, all you are doing is raising your PWT (perched water table.) and the room for media in your container is reduced.
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CraigMF



Joined: 04 May 2010
Posts: 14
Location: New York, Zone 5

Posted: Sat 22 May, 2010 1:31 am

I can't speak for a lot of what you say, but I know you're mistaken about at least one thing. Sticking a layer of something in the bottom of the pot isn't going to increase drainage in a poor soil.
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Evaldas
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Joined: 30 Jan 2010
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Location: Vilnius, Lithuania, Zone 5

Posted: Sat 22 May, 2010 6:05 pm

I think a citrus nursery in Portugal uses CHC...
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danero2004
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Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Posts: 523
Location: Romania Zone 6a

Posted: Sat 22 May, 2010 6:46 pm

i'm for the chc /spaghnum potting mix
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Sylvain
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 790
Location: Bergerac, France.

Posted: Sat 22 May, 2010 7:26 pm

Mgk65 and Millet, You made a small mistake. Using CHC at the bottom of a pot will not lift the PWT. It would be true with stones but it is'nt with CHC because it is absorbent so the down part of the PWT will be in the CHC, not upon the CHC.
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mgk65
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Joined: 08 Feb 2010
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Location: WV (Zone 6)

Posted: Sat 22 May, 2010 9:23 pm

sylvain, great point!
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danero2004
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Location: Romania Zone 6a

Posted: Sun 23 May, 2010 4:41 am

Millet even If I don't agree with him he did said that is 2 inch layer of CHC and not 2 inch chunks

is just an opinion.... but i agree with the fact that if you add a layer of stones , gravel , pine bark or CHC will not increase the drainage of a bad potting mix, in fact does something good by keeping the mix out of the water from the tray when you water them.
I can not comment on PWT , 'cause I don't know.Smile
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Skeeter
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 2218
Location: Pensacola, FL zone 9

Posted: Sun 23 May, 2010 9:57 am

First of all, I don't use CHC mainly becaues it is too expensive--it is hard to beat the price of pine bark for me (free). I'm not saying it is not a useful media, but when I tried it, it was no better as far as growth and did not seem to last any better than my pine bark.

I disagree with RyanL on the use of synthetic fertilizer. In a container, it would be very difficult to maintain a sufficient supply of N, P, and K from the decomposition of organic matter--especially in an area like ours with 5 to 7 ft of rainfall/yr. Slow release fertilizer maintains a healthy concentration of available forms of nutrients in the form that plants must have for uptake just like organic matter would if you could supply it in organic form--and the rain would wash it out at the same rate.

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mgk65
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Location: WV (Zone 6)

Posted: Sun 23 May, 2010 11:27 am

millet:

The important point about the CHC vs rocks is that the CHC would be able to wick the moisture to the bottom of the container (regardless of the size of the CHC), while the rocks would not.

Imagine an actual wick (i.e. shoelace or small rope) placed at the bottom of a container media, in contact with the media and allowed to dangle below the container. This wick would extend the PWT outside of the container.

I have some of my containers in direct contact with the ground. With these containers, the ground provides for an excellent path for the excess moisture to go.
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ivica
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Joined: 08 Jan 2007
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Location: Sisak, Croatia, zone 7b

Posted: Sun 23 May, 2010 11:47 am

mgk65 wrote:

Imagine an actual wick (i.e. shoelace or small rope) placed at the bottom of a container media, in contact with the media and allowed to dangle below the container. This wick would extend the PWT outside of the container.


An old towel bellow the pot works well for me.

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danero2004
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Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Posts: 523
Location: Romania Zone 6a

Posted: Sun 23 May, 2010 2:51 pm

ivica wrote:

An old towel bellow the pot works well for me.


also for air humidity arround the trees
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RyanL
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Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Posts: 410
Location: Orange County, North Carolina. 7B

Posted: Mon 24 May, 2010 12:15 pm

Guys, The point of this post was to present the idea to our junior citrus members that CHC is not the agreed standard citrus growing medium and that there are great and in many cases superior mediums out there. Everything is debatable, this article is also directed at outdoor citrus growing.

"Many people think adding items such as rocks, broken pots shards, or in your case large pieces of CHC," Millet, it would be an incorrect to assume CHC behaves like rocks or pot shards. As mgk65 & Sylvain point out the CHC serves as a wick that helps dry out the medium faster, In my area of NC we have heavy rains flowed by drought in the summer, the CHC layer helps in times of heavy rain.
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Sylvain
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 790
Location: Bergerac, France.

Posted: Mon 24 May, 2010 12:52 pm

Could you tell us more about "the agreed standard citrus growing mediums"?
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