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citrange
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Posted: Wed 28 Oct, 2009 7:34 pm

Mainly for Millet....because I know he has a seedling grown from the orange tree said to have been planted by St. Dominic at Santa Sabina Convent, Rome, Italy.
Some years ago I found some photos on the internet and made this webpage
http://www.homecitrusgrowers.co.uk/temp/StDominicsOrange.html
Last weekend I was in Rome and tried to see the tree. I couldn't actually get into the garden, but there is a small hinged window about 12" x 8" in the wall. Then a downward sloping tunnel about 4ft long allows you to see the trunk of the tree.
I pushed my camera down the tunnel as far as I dared without losing it, but my arm wasn't long enough to get a complete view. Here is the best I could manage. The first photo shows the tunnel sides - and a nun in the garden!



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gdbanks
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Posted: Wed 28 Oct, 2009 11:02 pm

So is that tree supposed to be ~700 years old? I would have thought the trunk would be thicker. Though my perception of the thickness may be off.

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Millet
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Posted: Wed 28 Oct, 2009 11:23 pm

Mike, yes I do have a seedling Saint Dominic tree. Around 1886 the Sisters of the Saint Sabina Convent in Rome sent a contingent of Nuns to the United States to open a Catholic Dominican Convent in the "New World" (at least for their order). Before departing for the USA, the nuns took a branch cutting from the tree that Saint Dominic planted in the year 1200, and rooted it. They brought the rooted tree, growing in a container with them to America. The rooted tree (Sour Orange) is now 125 years old and growing at their convent in New Jersey. I had a chance "meeting" on the UBC forum with Sister Mary Catharine the nun in charge of caring for the 125 year old tree. Sister was looking for help with a problem with the fruit not turning color. Being a good Catholic boy, I told her I would be so grateful if she would send me some seed from the tree, which she did. Luckily one of the seeds germinated, and the tree is now about 3 ft. tall and 2 ft wide. My tree would be the son of the Saint Dominic tree. In Rome, the nuns give fruit and or leaves from the original 809 year old tree that St. Dominic planted to visitors upon request. I also have two pictures of the Original Saint Dominic tree that I found on the Internet. Thanks for the post. - Millet (1,175-)
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citrange
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Posted: Thu 29 Oct, 2009 6:26 am

I agree that the trunk does not look like such an old tree.
I have read suggestions that the present tree is actually a sucker from an older tree that died.
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Millet
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Posted: Thu 29 Oct, 2009 2:50 pm

As written on page 46 in the book "The Citrus Industry" published by the University of California, the Dominican order told Professor Herbert Webber, that the original tree planted in 1200 AD was frozen down in 1709, and that a new trunk sprung up from the old trunk's roots in the year in which, Lacordaire re-established the Dominican order in France. Professor Webber, after visiting the tree said, " I have carefully examined the tree, and while it is obvious that the present trunk is not the original one, the root is undoubtedly of great age, and in view of the extraordinary care with which the Monks look after it, I do not consider it an impossibility that the root should be the actual surviver of the tree originally planted in Saint Dominic's time". - Millet (1,174-)
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citrange
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Posted: Thu 29 Oct, 2009 7:40 pm

After staring at it for some time, I've just realised what the writing says on the wall around the tree.
It is the Latin LIGNUM HABET SPEM, opening words taken from the Book of Job 14:7
"There is hope for a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that its shoots will not cease."
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Millet
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Posted: Thu 29 Oct, 2009 10:33 pm

Mike, thank you so much for noticing the Latin phrase. I will make a sign written both in English and Latin, and place it around the container in which my St. Dominic tree is planted. BTW, I believe (don't hold me to it) that tourist to Rome can spend the night at Saint Sabina Convent. I think the Sisters have certain rooms set aside for the public. - Millet (1,174-)
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citrange
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Posted: Sun 01 Nov, 2009 12:08 pm

Quote:
As written on page 46 in the book "The Citrus Industry" published by the University of California, the Dominican order told Professor Herbert Webber, that the original tree planted in 1200 AD was frozen down in 1709, and that a new trunk sprung up from the old trunk's roots in the year in which, Lacordaire re-established the Dominican order in France. Professor Webber, after visiting the tree said, " I have carefully examined the tree, and while it is obvious that the present trunk is not the original one, the root is undoubtedly of great age, and in view of the extraordinary care with which the Monks look after it, I do not consider it an impossibility that the root should be the actual surviver of the tree originally planted in Saint Dominic's time".


I couldn't find this in my 2nd edition copy of The Citrus Industry, Vol 1, so I checked the first edition and there it was!
But in fact the text is quoting from a 1938 book by Samuel Tolkowsky, called 'Hesperides: A history of the culture and use of citrus fruits'. So I think it was Tolkowsky who visited the tree and not Herbert Webber.

I have tried to get a copy of this book, but it is very rarely available and therefore expensive. Apparently the main printing was destroyed in a German air-raid on London in 1939, so few copies survive. However, I do have a version photo-copied from a library. This includes a photo -presumably from the 1930's - of the St. Dominic Tree. My photocopy is very poor quality but I intend to make an improved copy in the next few weeks and include it in a revised webpage about this historic tree.
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Millet
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Posted: Sun 01 Nov, 2009 1:06 pm

Thanks again, I went back and re-read the text concerning Saint Dominic's tree in "The Citrus Industry" and indeed it was Samuel Tolkowsky who examined the tree. However "The Citrus Industry" did not provide the name of Tolkowsky's book, thanks again for providing the title. - Millet (1,171-)
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citrange
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Posted: Sat 14 Nov, 2009 3:36 pm

I have done some more investigation into St Dominics Orange Tree.
See
http://www.homecitrusgrowers.co.uk/citrusplaces/StDominicsOrange.html
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Millet
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Posted: Sat 14 Nov, 2009 5:16 pm

Mike, I congratulate you on both your outstanding web site, and the new information you found on Saint Dominic's tree, This tree is certainly one astonishing citrus tree, with a most rare and unique history. I find its connection to Saint Dominic, one of the Church's great saints, unusually intriguing. The tree's extraordinary tenacity for life, its struggles, and its ability to regenerate new growth for over 800 + years, is nothing short of wondrous. Without a doubt, it certainly is one amazing tree. I feel privileged to have been given seeds from this special tree. - Millet (1,159-)
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citrange
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Posted: Tue 24 Nov, 2009 8:24 am

Thanks for your comments.
I don't know why I get hung up about these things, but the obvious lack of 'ancientness' of that trunk has been nagging me. So I've been tracking down old guide books to Santa Sabina on ebay.
Finally, I have found what I was looking for in a 1961 publication in Italian in a series called 'The Churches of Rome illustrated' by F.Darsy.
Translated it reads: In May 1958 the sacred surround of the tree was re-built. Visible today are the remainders of the old trunk and branch which sprouted at the time of Lacordiare, next to the new offshoot planted in 1939. 'Offshoot' can also be translated as 'descendent' or 'scion', but I think we can safely say the tree visible today is about 70 years old, and propagated from the original.
I have now included that information on my website. I don't feel it in any way diminishes the interest in this tree growing in the same position and genetically identical to the original planted by St. Dominic, but it does explain the age of the tree now growing.
So I now consider this investigation is closed, and I can go back to my greenhouse!
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Millet
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Posted: Tue 24 Nov, 2009 1:42 pm

Mike, perhaps your theory is correct, I really don't know. However, I believe what is meant by "off shoot" indeed is an off shoot, and is a new growth proceeding from the ancient root. One thing for sure, there was the tree at Saint Sabina's in 1890, because the rooted cutting that the Dominican sisters brought with them to the United States was cut from the Saint Sabina tree in 1890, and is now a 129 year old tree growing at their Monastery in New Jersey. Either way, whether, a new surround was built and then an actual off shoot was replanted in the surround, or by way of a scion, it really does not make much difference, as they both would be the same genetic tree that was planted by Saint Dominic over 800 years ago. Lastly, descendants of Saint Dominic's tree are growing throughout the world, by the planting of seeds taken from the tree's fruit, as is the case for my tree growing here in Colorado USA. The story of this tree is certainly remarkable. Thanks yet again for your efforts.

Here is an interesting excerpt from an E-mail I received on Tuesday November 3, 2009 from Sister Mary Catharine, a nun at the Monastery of Our Lady Of The Rosary in Summit, New Jersey........"Our tree {the 129 year old rooted cutting} is doing very well as some friends repotted it for us. It is in a huge wine vat. They had to use the back of their truck and a pole to get it out of the old pot and transplant it.".............

NOTE: the phrase {the 129 year old rooted cutting} added by Millet for clarification.

Millet (1,149-)
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