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Arctic Blast in the Forecast for N. California!
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JoeReal
Site Admin
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Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 4726
Location: Davis, California

Posted: Sat 13 Jan, 2007 3:12 am

bencelest wrote:
Joe:
I have 2 big wiine barrel but I am not sure if that will help. Let me know if it helps you. What I want is a sustainable heat source.

I am puzzled why some people flood their soil when there is a freeziing tempt coming?


My sustainable heat source would be the kitchen faucet connected to our whole house heater. So I simply replace the water in the wine barrels.

Remember that water has a very high heat storage capacity, much better than the soil. Flooding with water will partially help because it can store heat when there is sunshine and give it off slowly at night. Remember, when I say heat, it is heat energy. Any temperature above that can damage the citrus can be seen as having higher heat content than the air which is lower temperature. So if the water is 36 deg F, and the air is 25 deg F, we can say that water has stored heat energy relative to air, but both temperatures are chilly to our bones. It takes a hundered times (i forgot the exact number, but just to give you an idea) or more cubic ft of air than water of the same volume to have equivalent energy when there is just 1 deg change in temperature. So water could work.

But if the low air temperature is sustained, water will no longer help at all, but another thing happens when it turns into ice, it becomes a very good thermal insulation if you managed to cover your citrus with ice.
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dauben
Citruholic
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Sat 13 Jan, 2007 4:26 am

Here in San Diego (Santee) we're getting 29-F tonight and 27-F tomorrow. Our house must be in the cold part of Santee because we always seem to be 2 degrees colder than the forecast. Just to be safe I followed everyone's advice about the Christmas lights (which I fortunately hadn't put away yet from Christmas) and wrapped them around my dwarf Tangelo tree and covered it. I have just confirmed my wife's suspicion that I've gone absolutely nuts! Very Happy

Phillip
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harveyc
Citruholic
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Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 372
Location: Sacramento Delta USDA Zone 9

Posted: Sat 13 Jan, 2007 5:47 am

Joe, I never heard the water to soil energy comparison, but one of my soil science professors told me 30 years ago that wet soil takes 5 times as much energy to heat up as does dry soil. Conversely, it also will hold that much more heat.

I've got a few citrus and bananas, but am more concerned about 120 acres of seedling alfalfa I have in the ground. Sad

So far, it's not an colder here than last night, thank God!

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Harvey
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JoeReal
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Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 4726
Location: Davis, California

Posted: Sat 13 Jan, 2007 7:14 am

It's 1:14 am, my wireless thermometer says, it is 26.4 deg F.

I just finished covering my 50-n-1 citrus tree. Time to hit the sack.

My wife told me that I am beyond nuts!!!
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Stan McKenzie
Citrus Guru
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Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 314
Location: Scranton, SC USA

Posted: Sat 13 Jan, 2007 11:44 am

Just wanted to let you guys out in California now that you have my sympathies! Having "been there, done that" many times here in SC, I know some of what you are going thru. Hope you come thru this without too much damage. We hit 18F here the first week of December and it defoliated trees that Ive never had problems with. We had experienced virtually no cold up until that point and the high teens was just more than they could take. I feel sure most will recover. Someone asked why would growers flood their fields in advance of a freeze.... Here in the southeast, the temperature of water coming out of the ground is usually in the 60's if not warmer.. That would create a nice little warming effect if a grove was flooded.

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STEELVIPER
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Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 29
Location: Riverisde, CA Zone:9B

Posted: Sat 13 Jan, 2007 2:52 pm

HA HA!!! i love the dedication from everyone here that has to go above and beyond the call to protect there plants. I'am one of the nuts that goes out and wraps or covers all my tropicals, bananas, and citrus. You should have seen me yesterday up on a ladder covering my tallest banana and orange tree. Out of the coner of my eye i saw my neighbor shaking his head in disbelief. I start at 4pm with the heating and covering of my cichlid pond, then move on to the plants. By the time im done, it is almost 6pm. dedication! you got to love it.

here is a pic i took friday morning. Looking out my front yard to the east. A small hill near by. Hill is located in Grand Terrace ,CA. Snow is SoCal.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g156/steeelviper/PHTO0004.jpg
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dauben
Citruholic
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Sat 13 Jan, 2007 2:58 pm

STEELVIPER wrote:
I'am one of nuts that goes out and wraps or covers all my tropicals, bananas, and citrus.


Well with all of the nuts around here, maybe we should rename this forum to the "Citrus Nut Farm". Then again, I can see a flood of new posts questioning which citrus trees grow edible nuts.

Phillip
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citrusboy
Citruholic
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Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 170
Location: Southern California Coastal

Posted: Sat 13 Jan, 2007 3:08 pm

Good Lord. Snow down here. So much for Global Warming. My Wife had already classified me as a nut when the number of dwarf citrus at our house reached 70. I always bring up Benecelest, Millet and Joe Real to make me seem more "Normal". Honey, Everyone grows this many trees. See...

Got down to 34 around 6am this morning. Wind is now blowing like crazy. Some new growth on my Kara Madarin looks like it's done for. And no Volleyball at the beach today as nobody wants to play in a parka.

1 more day of record lows.

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citrusboy aka marc
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karpes
Citruholic
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 379
Location: South Louisiana

Posted: Sat 13 Jan, 2007 3:44 pm

Just a thought but a 150,000 btu torpedo heater will run about 10-12 hours on a tank of fuel. I run diesel in these things all the time and they do well with a little maintenance once and a while.
Benny has a good setup for a heater the way it is wrapped and covered. I believe that he could trap a lot of heat.
Down side it that if you cannot borrow one they cost $400 and change.
Karl
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bencelest
Citruholic
Citruholic


Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 1596
Location: Salinas, California

Posted: Sat 13 Jan, 2007 10:39 pm

ha-ha, mine are all home made except the materials.
Yes, we are all nuts, or dedicated hobbyist, whatever. My wife asked me last night why don't I sleep with my citrus. And she won't let me go to bed because I smelled "outside".
I met Joe and EZ at the scion exchange this afternoon and I had a great time.
I got many kinds of persimmons of the Fuyo kind and European green gage plums.
As usual EZ gave me his sweet oros and Joe his wine.
Bunch f nice guys we have here.

benny
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bencelest
Citruholic
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 1596
Location: Salinas, California

Posted: Sat 13 Jan, 2007 11:03 pm

Joe:
"But if the low air temperature is sustained, water will no longer help at all, but another thing happens when it turns into ice, it becomes a very good thermal insulation if you managed to cover your citrus with ice."

I am still at a loss here. I reread and reread your answer above but please tell me:
If I wet the leaves and flood the sorrounding soil with water via water hose, will that help my citrus overnight when the tempt deeps down to 18 degrees?
Or as you said let the hot water run through the wine barrel all night to bring the ambient tempt up.
This are all new to me.
I read before that Karl has a set up that he can run his sprinkler system at night when thre is a possibility of freezing tempt.
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BabyBlue11371
Site Admin
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Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 830
Location: SE Kansas

Posted: Sat 13 Jan, 2007 11:35 pm

just curious.. maybe this has been answered and I missed it.. but.. what temp should be considered when worrying about how low temps get?? What I mean is actual temp vs. Wind chill temp..
right now temp here is 20*F.. but wind chill temp is 9*F..
If I had a plant that was hardy to 20 but not below 15 would It matter that my wind chill is 9?
Sorry to but in.. wasn't sure where else this ? would fit..

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dauben
Citruholic
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Sun 29 Apr, 2007 2:41 pm

I don't know how everyone else's trees are recovering from the arctic blast of January, but here's some picts of my Eureka Lemon and Fuerte Avacodo.

Phillip



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Skeeter
Moderator
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 2218
Location: Pensacola, FL zone 9

Posted: Sun 29 Apr, 2007 3:43 pm

Pretty amazing recovery Phillip.

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Skeet
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dauben
Citruholic
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 963
Location: Ramona, CA, Zone 9A

Posted: Sun 29 Apr, 2007 6:39 pm

Skeeter wrote:
Pretty amazing recovery Phillip.


Thanks. I wish I could say I had something to do with it, but nature just had to do its thing. I wish I had been more proactive to prevent the loss I did have. Joe had some good pointers that I'm going to try next time. For now though, the spring and summer heat are now in effect.

Phillip
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