Hello,
simple but worth a discussion:

There are different ways of budding around. Usually a thin, smooth cut is done on the scion to remove the bud. Only sometimes, linke in the spanish 'la plata' methode or in the french budding methode the bud is peeled of the wood from the scion. So there are budding shields with a thin sliver of wood under the bud, or simple woodless budding patches.

So I cut the bud in the typical form, starting above the bud, cutting down unter the bud through and then tearing of the bud, getting a long 'tail' below the bud.
Now I insert the bud in the Invert-T cut on the rootstock, push if upward to ensure best cover by the bark flaps and cut away the 'tail', just making it exactly fit to the horizontal cut in the rootstock.
Now I wrap with a PE-Tape....

So but the thing with the woody buds of woodless buds made my guess, and as I did yesterdays several buddings.. I was thinking the whole day after budding.
So I did a test: I cut on bud, teared it of the stick and turned it over. I could easily tear off the wood from the bark of the bud, and only directly at the bud aera, it was tight, but I was able to loosen it, and remove it completely....

So, what you guess: Remove the wood unter the bark of the budding shield, or let it persist?

In thorny selection like most lemons, no guess, that this is impossible, but I think about the most thornless selections.

Just my opinion, but to me speed (or lack there of) and exposure to air are the biggest factors reducing the success rate of T-buds (except for non-slipping bark). I go so far as to use the top of a bic pen to hold the T slot open so that as soon as I cut the bud, I can flick the pen top out of the way and insert the bud--probably less than 5 secs from cut to inserted. I have only done maybe 50 T-buds, but my success rate from the start has been over 60% and it is getting better.

Hello Skeeter,
sorry, maybe you missunderstood something.
Time isn't the factor, one can go fast, the other one more slow.. I was just asking for the wooden piece at the bud shield...

Look here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b42Hk8JSjIo

Can you see, how I remove the wood?
Okay, I touch the bud with my fingers, what shouldn't happen, but I did simply as demonstration

So, some guy remove this wood, other's simply let it were it is...
So what's better?
Removing, or let it persist?

There is no way you can work as fast if you spend time removing the wood shield from the bud, and again, I think time between cutting and inserting is one major factor in budding success.

Second, contamination from contact with your fingers--unless you work like a surgeon-- can also reduce success.

I do not see any benefit from removing the wood shield, except possibly fit, and I do not have a problem there. In addition, I use the bud itself to push open the T (I only lift the corners of the T and then hold them open with an ink pen top prior to cutting the bud--I then cut the bud and insert it in seconds). If I removed the wood, it probably would not be stiff enough to push into the unopened part of the T.

I am just a beginner in grafting, but my success rate when the bark is slipping properly is pushing 90%--I think the reasons I listed are why.

My rate of failure in budding is greatest when I spent time to take out the sliver of wood in the bud. I would get it to take only 1 out of 10. If I didn't take it out, my success rate is about 99.9% (if I didn't experiment).

Gene Lester, the guy who owns the largest private collection of citrus cultivars, have recommended to take out bigger slice of bud, meaning, take out the bud as large as you can comfortably manage, up to half the diameter of the scionwood. His point is well taken in that, by taking a larger chunk, and doing it quickly, you are taking larger storage food and moisture together with your bud. This slows down the drying of the bud and increases its chance of take.

As for me, I cut only according to the size of the destination stem. If the destination stem is bigger, I would cut bigger sized bud, for the same reasons. But if the destination branch is small, I would cut the largest bud that would comfortably fit.

I noticed that if I try to take out the sliver of wood underneath the bud, I end up bruising the bud. You can see it that it would be discolored or darker green (due to physical stress of wood removal) than before. The success rate is a lot lower if you do, the buds are physically damaged in the process. So why waste time to lower your success rate?

For it's merit, I remove sliver of wood when doing budding of persimmons, apples, pears, peaches in the fall. At that time, a light pressure on the cut bud, the wood is easily removed because the wood is slipping very well on the bud itself. In fact I time the budding when the bark are slipping on both the budwood and the destination branches. The success rate of that is higher than when you include the wood. In this case, you have a better fit on the destination branch when the sliver of wood is not incuded.

This just doesn't work well with most citrus budwoods, using just my own technique. The main problem is that most budwood material that I use don't slip well, so it damages the bud if you try to take the sliver of wood. But perhaps when the budwood itself is slipping very well, then it would work, like in 10% case for me. I primarily use dormant scionwood of citruses, that is why removing the sliver of wood is counter-productive.

If dormant wood is taken there will be no way of removing the wood sithout destroying the bud. On dormant cut wood leave the sliver alone. If the budwood is current season growth the sliver of wood can be removed with no damage done. Personally I never remove the sliver of wood. If I do not have better than 90% takes it has been a bad day.

Thank you.
I was little confused, because from france I was told, that there above the cut a horizontal cut is made, and two curved downward cuts, which meet in the middle below the bud.
After that, they lift the bud with the brass bark spade of the knife and remove it from the wood....
Also in California topworking of Citrus is done with the spanish 'la plata' technique, it's a methode usually to bud walnuts, but it also works for citrus...

That's why I asked... So I will continue and doing chip budding....


http://de.youtube.com/results?search_query=veredeln+citrus&search_type=

Works good, usually.

Chip budding certainly has the benefit of being usable when bark is not slipping. I have only done 5, and initially thought 4 of 5 had worked, but eventually that dropped to 1 out of 5. It may be I just have not got that method down, but when the bark is slipping, I have much better success with T-budding or inverted T-budding.

I have more failures with Chip budding than T-budding, but honestly, the immediate result of chip budding after a successful take and sprout is cleaner and more seamless than T-budding if I really spend the extra time to mix and match the cut. But after a year, they look the same.

I only do chip budding when the barks are not slipping, which is very seldom. Out of the 500 citrus grafts I did this year, only 4 were chip buds, and two chip buds failed, but probably due to incompatibility.