How many years old must trifoliate hybrid seedlings be before blooming? I've read about a certain # of nodes and height of tree, etc. But, I've also read that some flying dragons and procemequats flower early. I have the following trees at about 2 to 3 ft tall and wonder which types may bloom after how many years: Swingle and Dunstan Citrumelos, Bloomsweet grapefruit, Changsha, Rusk, Thomasville , citradia, Troyer citrange. Also, what do the "nodes" that I'm supposed to count look like? Are they the anual growth lines along a branch?

Most citrus will fruit in 3-5 years from seed. My Ruby red grapefruit took the longest & that was 5 years from seed.

Thanks.

Hi Citradia,
Welcome to the group! A node is each location along the branch where a leaf forms as the branch grows out. As to how long it takes to reach maturity it varies from cultivar to cultivar, and has a lot to do with how much warmth the plant gets, which is the primary factor in how many growth flushes per year the plant puts on. Some of the folks on this site can probably give you more specific info on the # of years by cultivar in their area. Where are you located?

Im on top of a mountain at 2,888 ft elevation in Old Fort, NC. The coldest I've ever seen it here was 4 degrees about 10 years ago. My coldest night last year was one night of 14 degrees, this winter so far my coldest temp was 19 degrees. I've only had about 10 nights at or below freezing here this "winter". I'm usually 10 degrees warmer up here than than in the surrounding valleys over night, and 5 degrees cooler during the day. So far, my citranges and changsha that I planted last spring have not dropped a leaf this winter with plastic dome enclosures used in Dec and Jan and now only plastic walls on North and west sides of each tree for wind breaks. I have a Kimbrough satsuma too that I built a frame around and covered with 6 mil plastic and can roll up side to vent.

Laaz's plants live in a citrus paradise!
Here in England, seedlings take at least 12 years to start flowering.

I've always been a bit dubious about an exact 'node count' for a variety to start flowering. No-one can ever quote a figure. If the theory is correct then the quickest way to achieve a high node count would be to trim off all side shoots ad train your seedlings into a single upright stem, thus concentrating supplied nutrients into growth approaching the required count. Has anyone seen any reported attempts to do this?

Citradia, as you ar in N.C. you might double the figures of Laaz who is in S.C..
Like Mike I don't believe much in nodes counts.

Node count is a good method that has been developed to determine ABOUT when a Citrus variety might be expected to become a mature tree. Like most all other facets pertaining to citrus, it is not an absolute fool proof exact node number, but rather a range. Milllet

Have you actally seen any figures quoted?
For instance, what is the node count for fruiting for an orange, lemon, poncirus?

Mike no I have not, but then I have never bothered to look.

Below is a post by Dr. Manners dated March 27, 2007 concerning maturity node count for citrus:

"I think you have it right if I'm reading your question correctly. You start with the seed as node zero, and count up from there. When the plant makes its first side branch, say at node 14, the next node above that on the main trunk will be 15, AND the first node on the new side branch will ALSO be 15. So on a big old tree, there may be hundreds of node 4762. Each node "knows" and "remembers" its own number. If you bud/graft node 4762 into the base of a rootstock seedling, you don't change the seedling's node count at all, but when the scion grows out, it makes 4763, 4764, etc. on the scion stem.
The result of all this is that a seedling must grow rather far away from the seed to flower, hence the problem with flowering a seedling in the house. If you prune it back, you remove some node numbers. If you pruned to #43, throwing away nodes up to 100, when the houseplant resumes growth, it resumes at 44, NOT 101. So a constantly pruned house plant may never flower. And even an ancient seedling tree which has been flowering and bearing fruit for 100 years, if cut down and the stump resprouts, it will be juvenile again. The nodes never forget their numbers.

But this is also why the technique of air layering or rooting a cutting from the top of a seedling houseplant, and replacing the original plant with the new propagation is a good way to get flowers and fruit, eventually. If you take a cutting that contains nodes 56, 57, 58, and 59, root it, and make a new potted plant of it, it will resume growth at 60. So you've done away with several feet of stem length in the process of getting to the minimum needed node number for flowering."

my Poncirus trifoliata took 8 years to bloom from seed. I'm in southeast Massachusetts USDA zone 6b.

I understand the general idea of node count, but its the statement that it is fixed (or even a fixed range) for a particular variety or species that I wonder about.
Will the node count for flowering in Laaz's citrus paradise really be the same as in my unsuitable environment? Does the inter-nodal distance make no difference at all?
Above all, I don't think anyone has yet found a convincing explanation for how a leaf node 'remembers' its own number. (Check out the controversy over 'florigen'!) Presumably, if this were understood then the number could be re-programmed for younger fruiting.

Mike, I don't think the inner-node has anything to do with the time of maturity. If the inner-node was related in some manner with maturity, then simply spraying GA3, which lengthens the inner-node, would greatly reduce the time from Juvenality to maturity but it does not. I also believe the reason that a citrus tree will reach maturity faster in Laaz's area, which by the way is not considered a good citrus growing area, over England is due to the difference in the amount of sunlight and heat so a tree grows faster, and that both areas would require a similar note count before maturity. Obviously a node must remember it number, or why bother insuring that only mature nodes are used when budding a seedling. An interesting experiment would be to bud the very last immature bud, the one just below the first mature bud, and see the amount of time a seedling to begins flowering and fruiting. Regards,- Millet

I've seen innumerable discussions of node count but there are a few points of the theory that still seem fuzzy to me:

Say a certain citrus tree starts flowering when it reaches node count 1,250.
The WHOLE tree flowers, not just the nodes above 1,250.

Wouldn't this indicate that the whole tree "knows" it has reached the node count necessary to flower? (IE, even if you cut it back below node count 1,250, wouldn't the lower parts of the tree continue to flower and fruit, or does that "reset" the tree to juvenile stage?

The result of all this is that a seedling must grow rather far away from the seed to flower, hence the problem with flowering a seedling in the house. If you prune it back, you remove some node numbers. If you pruned to #43, throwing away nodes up to 100, when the houseplant resumes growth, it resumes at 44, NOT 101. So a constantly pruned house plant may never flower. And even an ancient seedling tree which has been flowering and bearing fruit for 100 years, if cut down and the stump resprouts, it will be juvenile again. The nodes never forget their numbers.

From Millets post