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Growth in high heat?

 
Citrus Growers Forum Index du Forum -> Container citrus
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Mark_T
Citruholic
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Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 757
Location: Gilbert,AZ

Posted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 1:35 am

Will my citrus grow at all now that the temps have hit 105-110 for until October? Do I alter my fert program?
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turtleman
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Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 225
Location: Arizona

Posted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 2:08 am

Not unless your under 50% shade and have insulated containers. Most important is the container, 15 to 20 gallon size containers get to hot for the root structure and feeder root systems just burn.
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Mark_T
Citruholic
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Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 757
Location: Gilbert,AZ

Posted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 10:29 pm

So if I want to keep these in managable pots the answer is no. Or heavy shade right?
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turtleman
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Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 225
Location: Arizona

Posted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 11:19 pm

Insulate your pots so the roots don't cook, Pot in a Pot systems work real well.
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 11:56 pm

Citrus stop all vegetative growth below 55.4F, and *IF* I remember correctly (without bothering to look it up) citrus growth slows way down at temperatures above 96F. - Millet (1,276-)
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DesertDance
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Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 47
Location: Hills of Hemet, CA, County Property

Posted: Thu 13 Aug, 2009 12:07 pm

Interesting. I have 4 citrus. 2 in ground, and 2 in containers. They all get morning sun only, and they are all on a drip system 1/2 gal per hour, 3 days a week for 3 hours at a time.

Our temps in the summer are never lower than 103 Degrees F, and mostly 109+.

A few weeks ago, I pinched every branch at the end, started playing classical music to them, and the hot weather growth is amazing! 8-15 new branches on each one!! They are growing so hard and fast, today I pinched again!

Is it the heat or the music? I'll never know, but the heat is certainly NOT a drawback!

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So CA Zone 19
"Go out on a limb! That's where the fruit is." Mark Twain
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Millet
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Thu 13 Aug, 2009 12:26 pm

Probably caused by the many golf courses in La Quinta, it must be a cool breeze from errant golf balls flying passed the tree. - Millet 1,252-)
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Mark_T
Citruholic
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Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 757
Location: Gilbert,AZ

Posted: Fri 14 Aug, 2009 11:56 pm

My growth has stopped for alomost two months now, but it was also the hottest July on record here and thats saying something. Lots of 110+ days.
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JoeReal
Site Admin
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Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 4726
Location: Davis, California

Posted: Sat 15 Aug, 2009 12:49 am

Millet wrote:
Citrus stop all vegetative growth below 55.4F, and *IF* I remember correctly (without bothering to look it up) citrus growth slows way down at temperatures above 96F. - Millet (1,276-)


As for the 55.4F, most probably referring only to the most common US commercial cultivars but definitely not every cultivar of citrus.

In my speculation, the temp above 96F can have wonderful effect on citrus even if it's growth is slowed way down. For one, it induces mild mid-afternoon stress which could improve the fruit flavor, to explain why oranges grown in the desert areas are more wonderfully flavored than those grown in tropical areas.

It is almost the same concept as making the best wine grapes. If you pamper the grape vines to be stress free, you will only have a so-so grape flavor. Induce it with water stress during the fruit filling and ripening, you will get better flavors. It is the same with mankind, comfortable living makes for lack of innovation and lots of complaining at slightest problem, but under some mild stress, you develop creativity and nice character if you can handle the stress.
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Skeeter
Moderator
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 2218
Location: Pensacola, FL zone 9

Posted: Sun 16 Aug, 2009 7:55 am

JoeReal wrote:
Millet wrote:
Citrus stop all vegetative growth below 55.4F, and *IF* I remember correctly (without bothering to look it up) citrus growth slows way down at temperatures above 96F. - Millet (1,276-)


As for the 55.4F, most probably referring only to the most common US commercial cultivars but definitely not every cultivar of citrus.

In my speculation, the temp above 96F can have wonderful effect on citrus even if it's growth is slowed way down. For one, it induces mild mid-afternoon stress which could improve the fruit flavor, to explain why oranges grown in the desert areas are more wonderfully flavored than those grown in tropical areas.

It is almost the same concept as making the best wine grapes. If you pamper the grape vines to be stress free, you will only have a so-so grape flavor. Induce it with water stress during the fruit filling and ripening, you will get better flavors. It is the same with mankind, comfortable living makes for lack of innovation and lots of complaining at slightest problem, but under some mild stress, you develop creativity and nice character if you can handle the stress.

Smile

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Skeet
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pagnr
Citrus Guru
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Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 407
Location: Australia

Posted: Sun 16 Aug, 2009 10:07 am

Probably the actual container mix temperature is more important than the forecast air temperature. It may be a good chance to actually measure temp. on hot days, as it may be quite different to whats expected. Also any part of the pot that gets direct sun could be far hotter than the shady side etc.
I agree that insulating is worthwhile.

As for fertilizer, be aware that depending on your watering system , during periods of hot weather, the hydration of your container mix will probably go up and down more than usual. At the same time the actual concentration of fertilizer in your mix will also vary accordingly.
For example if you apply 1 litre of 10% strength liquid fertilizer to your pot, but half of the 1 litre evaporates, it may be closer to 20% strength in the end.
In the same way any as yet unused fertilizer in your mix from past applications will vary somewhat along with how wet or dry the mix gets.
In these cases you can get very high fertilizer concentrations in your mix
if the pots go dry soon after you apply fertilizer. Simply put the salinity levels in your container mix could go damagingly high.

The release rate of temperature controlled slow release fertilizers( ie osmocote etc) will also be faster as the temperature rises, so you may need to apply less than usual ammounts of these to avoid similar problems as above. Also most of these types have a monthly life span rating such as 3month, 6month, 12month, etc usually based around 20'c temp.
At higher average container temperatures they will release faster and have shorter lifespans. The 3 month and 6month types may be too fast acting under long periods of hot weather, so it may be wise to apply less or change to longer rated formulations.
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JoeReal
Site Admin
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Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 4726
Location: Davis, California

Posted: Sun 16 Aug, 2009 10:13 pm

That is why drainage is important. It really helps prevent mineral build up. When the potting media gets regular drainage, the solute concentration will tend to equilibriate with that of the solution applied and then drained away preventing run away build up of minerals. It is the same with lakes if it doesn't drain or don't have any outlet then it becomes salty.
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Millet
Citruholic
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Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 6656
Location: Colorado

Posted: Mon 17 Aug, 2009 12:49 am

The reason that Osmocote is made to release nutrition in relation to the temperature, is to match the growth cycle of plants. For citrus, when the temperature increases in the Spring and Summer the growth rate of citrus is rapid thus requiring extra nutrition, and during the winter citrus growth is slow to none, requiring little nutrition. Slow release fertilizers like Osmocote have faster release rates when the temperatures rise, and reduce the amount of nutrition release when the temperatures cool. Therefore a plant and the nutrition are in sink when fed with Osmocote. As Joe real notes, there is no soluble solids build up in a proper fast darning medium. The University of California's (UCR) containerized citrus trees at their CCPP facility, are fed fertilizers at 300 PPM N with every watering - all the time with no problems. - Millet (1,249-)
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