I know the plan is really about making more money for himself, but I still thought this was an interesting article.

http://www.pickensplan.com/theplan/

What first hit me after reading Harvey's thread about wind turbines, is the same old problem............................"Not In My Back Yard Attitude". I have heard that wind turbine propellers kill a ton of birds every year. True or false????? - Millet

I liked the blurb on the Natural Gas vehicles. That seems to be one alternative that I've heard about that seems could reduce oil dependency. It doesn't require new technology to store energy to drive the power train and the natural distribution piping is already piped to everyone's home here in the cities. I''ll have to look at what the cost per mile is. It looks like 170 miles on the 8 gallon tank. I wonder how much gas is per gallon? They actually have a gas filler that you install in your garage that runs off of your natural gas line. I assume it pressurizes the gas to a higher psi.

Phillip

Bob, in some areas there are lots of bird kills. In the Altamont Hills near the SF Bay Area there are high populations of birds there because of all of the oaks, etc. that also grow on those hills which provide habitat for the birds as well as their prey. However, west of me about 3-5 miles there is a large number of windmills going in on the Montezuma Hills that are rolling hills with virtually no trees. There are very few birds there. Also, they are using larger windmills and these are the largest in the USA. I've read somewhere that larger blades are less likely to get birds either because they move more slowly or because birds stay away from them better. Some of the landowners (farmers) there protested the plan by SMUD to install these five years ago or so but now they seem to like the idea very much. The wind royalties can be very rewarding! For instance, there is another company that wants to install windmills very near me on a farm my father and his partner sold to a friend that is now a partner of mine. He signed up and granted the company an option to study the wind patterns. The project he could earn royalties of about $96,000 off of his 216 acres each year. Unfortunately, the large dairyman that owns the land behind me is not interested and that may mean they would not come my direction. The back of my farm is very well suited to wind mills, though, so it is still a possibility. The noise can be somewhat of a problem, but I don't know that it would be that bad if located 2,000 feet away. I might buy another home with the royalties!

Philip, I saw a link on that page where you can check gas prices in your area. I saw gas ranging from about $2-$3 per gallon around me (it appears the City of Hayward had some sort of bargain!). I have not seen filling pumps that can be used at your home. I'll send you a PM.

Recently, I was in the Netherlands with the American Ivy Society, touring private gardens all around the Netherlands. These gardens were mostly owned by the wealthy and were not open to the public. On the North Sea coast, the Dutch had gigantic generating wind mills utilizing the strong winds coming off the North Sea. I can tell you they were pretty loud. Every time one of the huge blades came around there was an uncomfortably loud swooshing sound. I would not want to live near them. Around here there used to be some private wind mills for personal residence energy. They were all put in back when the government gave large tax credits for installing energy saving systems. Today there is not one left standing, they have all been taken down. I never asked why, but my guess is that the energy produced must not have been worth keeping them. However, I can't say for sure. - Millet

Bob, how close were you to those windmills? I'm wondering how far the noise is that much of a nuisance. I know some people that live in the Montezuma Hills near me, but they are few and far between.

The best spot on my property is east of my home about 2,000-2,500 feet. The winds come from the east when we have rain storms. Otherwise, the wind normall comes from the west or, occasionally, from the north. I think that the prevailing wind direction would make it more tolerable much of the time, probably no worse than the noise from the highway to the west of me 500 feet.

Here is a link to SMUD's windmill information which luckily proves I remembered some things right! http://www.smud.org/community-environment/wind/index.html

My nephew worked for a couple of years putting up windmills. I'll ask him about the noise volume. I believed the curved blades do help reduce the noise level.

This guy certainly doesn't like any windmills. http://www.darrylmueller.com/smud1193.html His personal experience is in the Altamont Hills and he lives close to them and has witnessed many bird kills, etc. If you go to his home page there are links to old articles about his fight, including one in the Wall Street Journal.

I believe the new windmills are likely more environmentally/homeower friendly because of design changes.

I've seen some of those old home windmills also which have been abandoned, though I've seen some that still operate. I believe the biggest problem is that they were not built well enough to be reliable and cost too much to repair. I knew a guy that once sold the kits but that was short-lived.

As far as operating efficiency, SMUD says their windmills produce electricity for about $.05/kwh. They are not perfect, though. Earlier this year one of those big guys shorted out and caused a big grass fire and the generator itself send a plume of black smoke in the air.

I believe the large towers are made in Korea and the turbine blades in Germany, but my memory isn't very certain with that.

Harvey, we were right next the to windmills. - Millet

About a month ago, we went for a ride NW to check out the flood damage and I saw an area that had just over 200 of those turbines/windmills. It's all farm land, so I'm sure the farmers are happy with the deal to let these go up on their land. They will have a total of 500 or more in the near future.
Each blade is 130 ft long. I can't imagine birds flying into them. There are no trees around & they don't turn very fast - at least looking at them at a distance. I did not hear any noise riding thru them. If I'm in the area, I'll take pics & post them here. I'm wondering why my electric bills are not affected.

You should see these 130 foot blades going down the highway and the truck making a (relatively) tight left turn. We had several of these shipped through our area heading for central PA (I think, based on their direction and the fact that there is a windmill farm that can be seen from the turnpike in central PA). My son and I were traveling in front of one of these and pulled off into a McD's up ahead to watch them make the turn. They had traffic tied up for a while, but interesting to watch. Barbara